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Table of Contents

April 2017 - Dadavani - English

EDITORIAL

Recognize the Interference of the Antahkaran

One Gets Punished for his own Fault

While Eating Your Food, the Intellect Harasses you

Interference Happens Through the Intellect That Creates Division

Through Interference in the Form of Raag-Dwesha, Worldly Life Persists

In Everything, the Intellect Interferes First

Using the Intellect Only Results in Interference

Interference is Only due to the Misguided Intellect

Suspicion is Interference of the Intellect

A Truly Intelligent Person is Able to Stop Interference

Intelligent People do not Interfere

Conduct With Discretion Avoids Interference

The Intellect Makes you Interfere and Take a Fall

Entanglements are Created due to the Interference of Intellect

Due to the Intellect, one Becomes a Buffoon

A Question is an Interference of the Intellect

Interference of the Intellect Blocks Niddidhyasan

The Result of the Interference of the Worldly Intellect

There is Unity Through the Heart, There is Interference Through the Intellect

Pragnya Cautions, Intellect Interferes

The Main Culprit of Interference is the ego

Interference Through ego of ‘I Know’

The Interference of ego Should Remain in Awareness

Kashaya Persist due to Interference of ego

Interference due to the ‘I’ Becoming Sensitive

The ego Will not Refrain From Interfering

It is Avyavasthit as Long as the ego Interferes

Prarabhda Exists With Interferences

Future Life Instilled by Interference of ego

The Interference is of the Pratishthit Atma, the Pure Soul is Gnata-Drashta

A Dead ego Does not Create a new Interference

Scars Remain, That is why Interference Persists

Pending due to the Interference of the Lifeless ego

The Interference of the Intellect Persists due to old Habits

The Intellect Interferes, Gnan Purifies

Charitra Moha Only if you Interfere

There is as Much Charitra Moha as There is Interference

All Except That Which is Natural is Interference

The Filled Stock Itself is Full of Interference

To Create Interference Versus the Interference That Ends up Happening

New Interferences in Discharging Interference

The Interference Done is Also a Part of the Design

If One is the Knower-Seer of the Antahkaran Then no Interference Remains

By Interfering the in the Function of the Antahkaran, Interference Happens

Do not Interfere With the Flow of Water

Know-See the Natural Function of the Antahkaran

The State of Mahatmas’ Antahkaran

There is no Interference in the Gnani’s Antahkaran

Once the Potapanu Leaves, Interferences Cease

When Interference in Antahkaran Ends, Then One Becomes God

(Pg. 1)

(Pg. 2)

(Pg. 3)

April 2017 - Dadavani - English

Recognize the Interference of the Antahkaran

EDITORIAL

From the Gnani’s perspective, what is human life? A systematic series of separate circumstances. Separate from all those perishable circumstances, One is the imperishable Self (Atma). All circumstances are in the form of an effect, however through ignorance, egoism, and the intellect one has attachment and abhorrence and gives rise to new circumstances.

After attaining Knowledge of the Self (Gnan), ignorance is removed however the antahkaran (internal functioning mechanism in every human being composed of the mind, intellect, chit and ego) remains. Now it is imperative to know how to remain free from the intellect that resides in the antahkaran and interferes in day-to-day worldly interaction. Wherever the intellect exists, it keeps on showing profit-loss, right-wrong, pleasure-pain and thereby causes restlessness. The intellect is the mother of duality. Its only job is to examine, and thereby it makes one emotional. When it engages with the ego then at that time, interferences of a distorted type arise such as, ‘I know, I am something, I am special’. Thereafter, due to one’s own understanding he becomes disturbed and gives others a beating with his intellect, gives pain, and then suffers himself as well. In this way, when the intellect sets out to seek for justice, the interference within the antahkaran begins.

In straightforward and simple language, the interference of the intellect is exemplified by yogurt starter being added to milk; it does not form into yogurt right away. However, hasty beings are not able to bear patiently. Every so often, they will stir it with a spoon to check, ‘Has the yogurt has formed or not?’ What is that referred to? Interference of the intellect. It makes the intellect sensitive meaning the antahkaran becomes unsteady. Dadashri says, only that intellect, which is naturally used in worldly matters, is of use. The remaining excess intellect will not refrain from causing interference.

In the current edition, Dadashri has described the interference of the intellect saying, “When the doors of the intellect close that is when the preparations for liberation will begin.” After attaining Knowledge of the Self, this intellect will dissolve on its own, assuming it does not interfere within. Having surpassed the height of the intellect, the Gnani Purush, who is beyond intellect, explains the intellect through the comprehensive viewpoint saying that after the light of the Self is attained, the need for the light of the intellect no longer remains. This is because the discharge intellect that is ingrained in the antahkaran ends up doing the work in worldly interaction.

After attaining the Self (Atma), if the ‘I’, as the Self, remains in its own state, then the Self is indeed separate from the antahkaran. After the Self becomes separate worldly activities continue on through the antahkaran and a state without bondage, a natural state, and freedom are experienced right here. That all of us mahatmas honor the Gnani’s understanding to progress in Gnan and remain free of interference, and attain the experience of freedom; that is our only ardent prayer.

~ Jai Sat Chit Anand

(Pg. 4)

Recognize the Interference of the Antahkaran

{Please note that ‘S’ Self denotes the awakened Self, separate from the ‘s’ worldly self or non-Self complex. The Self is the Soul within all living beings. The term pure Soul is used by the Gnani Purush for the awakened Self, after the Gnan Vidhi. The absolute Soul is the fully enlightened Self. The worldly soul is the self. In the same manner, ‘Y’ You refers to the awakened Soul or Self, and the ‘y’ you refers to the worldly self. Also note that round brackets are for translation purposes and square brackets are for clarity that has been added in English which is not originally present in Gujarati.}

One Gets Punished for his own Fault

Questioner: Dada, the pain I have to suffer, is it due to my own fault or due to someone else’s fault that I get this punishment?

Dadashri: No, no one is at fault in that. It is because of your own fault that the other person becomes a nimit (an evidence in the process). Actually, the fault is of the sufferer. To do, to make others do, and to instigate others into doing; even instigating others into doing will bring a result. Without doing a result does not arise.

Questioner: What does anumodan mean?

Dadashri: If a person is hesitant in doing something and you tell him, ‘Go ahead and do it. I am with you!’ Then that is referred to as anumodan. The one who encourages is considered to have greater liability! Who faces a greater liability for that which has been done? The one who used his intellect (buddhi) more has a greater distribution of it! These people are such that they find every single mistake in others but cannot see even one in themselves. When the mind is uncooperative, he will say, “Now I am fed up with this world!” If the intellect interferes, he says, “My intellect is being obstinate.” There is endless Ramayana and Mahabharata within and that is what he has become the owner of!

While Eating Your Food, the Intellect Harasses you

Questioner: Dada, I feel that it is interference (dakho) of the intellect.

(Pg.5)

Dadashri: The intellect is doing that, but that is the intellect’s nature. Now once you have this Gnan (Knowledge of the Self and Knowledge of the doer), You understand that nobody is at fault whatsoever. Everything that appears to be wrong, is shown by the intellect, and it harasses you. Your own intellect harasses you by feeding off that which is yours. The intellect feeds off of you, stays in your home, and then too, bothers you.

Interference Happens Through the Intellect That Creates Division

Questioner: I am asking to understand regarding this intellect and everything else that exists; is that not a part of the Self (Atma)?

Dadashri: No, that cannot be, that is not part of the Self. The intellect and the Self are two different things. The intellect is always with ego (ahamkar), whereas the Knowledge of the Self is always egoless (nirahamkari). The intellect is the indirect knowledge (paroksha gnan), it is an indirect light [of the Self], whereas the Knowledge (Gnan) is direct light (pratyaksha prakash) [of the Self]. So the world lives solely on the indirect light, whereas ‘we’ have the direct light. You do not have the light of the Knowledge of the Self, you have the light of the intellect. That is why you have divisiveness such as, ‘This much is mine and that is his’. Even though you are already sitting comfortably in your place, you will still tell the other person, “Sir, this is my spot.”

Separation is felt because of the divisive intellect(bheda buddhi). This interference (dakho) will remain as long as your intellect exists. Once the intellect comes to an end, oneness (abhedta) will be felt. What does the intellect do? It creates division. Upon attaining the Self (Atma), all interferences (dakho) comes to an end. Then no separation remains any longer. How long will there be separation? As long as there is interference in the intellect, as long as there is an intellect that creates division. Where the divisive intellect shows, ‘I am this, I am Chandubhai, he is that other person,’ separation will be created with others, won’t it?

Through Interference in the Form of Raag-Dwesha, Worldly Life Persists

In fact, this intellect (buddhi) has made all kinds of divisions in every circumstance (saiyog). Some people will say, “This is good,” while others will say it is bad! One may like the circumstance of jalebis (Indian sweet delicacy) so he will call it ‘good,’ while another will dislike it so he will call it ‘bad’. They again give opinions that, ‘This is good and this is bad’. Thus, attachment (raag) abhorrence (dwesha) arise, which is precisely why this worldly life (sansaar) perpetuates. If you give a small child a piece of glass and a diamond, the child will keep the glass and his father will take the diamond. This is because with intellect, the father takes the diamond. The intellect is such that it will give you worldly gains.

People will handle cow dung but

(Pg.6)

not human excretion. That too is excreta, isn’t it! What is the reason for that? It is because he has set the value himself. There is no such thing as this in nature. Whether there is a nice smell or foul smell; both are the same as far as nature is concerned. So over there, it is the same, but here it is not the same. How is it the same over there? The answer is that both are in the form of gneya (objects to be Known).

One has abhorrence towards that which has a foul smell and attachment towards that which has a nice smell. These two interferences emerge, and from that worldly life has arisen. And there is nothing of this [the Real] in it. It is all nothing but worldly arrangements. These are all societal arrangements, right or wrong, this or that!

There are only two things in the world: the pure Soul (Shuddhatma) and the circumstance (saiyog). That which is encountered externally is a circumstance; the cool breeze that is felt, the thoughts which arise, they are circumstances. But through the intellect, ‘This is good and this is bad’ is seen, and because of that, one keeps doing attachment and abhorrence. What the Knowledge of the Self (Gnan) says is that, ‘Both circumstances are equal. You, as the Self, are indeed free from the circumstances, so then why do You interfere? What is the circumstance going to do to You? ’ In fact, this circumstance is not the doer at all, but the intellect makes one interfere. The intellect helps accomplish the work in worldly life. The intellect will not let one attain liberation, whereas Knowledge of the Self takes one to liberation.

In Everything, the Intellect Interferes First

Questioner: Is intellect itself maya?

Dadashri: No, maya is ignorance of the Self (aGnan). Once Knowledge of the Self (Gnan) is acquired, ignorance leaves but the antahkaran (mind-intellect-chit-ego complex) remains, the intellect remains. The intellect incites one to ‘stick his hand’ in things that are profitable in worldly life and makes one wander in worldly life. What is the intellect? If someone was entrapping your son, your intellect compels you to interfere. In reality, it is Scientific Circumstantial Evidences (Vyavasthit) that makes everything happen, but still the intellect makes you interfere. First the mind informs the intellect, and then the intellect itself interferes in it saying, “What did it say, what did it say?” In everything, it interference is the first. At night, while sleeping, while dreaming it is not interfering so everything goes well. So, oh mortal one (mooah), isn’t all that happens while awake also a dream!

Using the Intellect Only Results in Interference

Dadashri: What happens when you use the intellectwhile making kadhee (yogurt soup)?

Questioner: The kadhee will be ruined.

Dadashri: Why? The intellect is

(Pg.7)

also light, is it not? Therefore, only the amount of intellect that is used naturally is of use. Any excess intellect causes all kinds of hassles. And if you have to use intellect, then why not use it everywhere! When these people drink water, must they be drinking it with the use of their intellect? What is meant by using the intellect? If something has fallen in the water, do people see and think about what is in the water, is such intellect used that way?

Questioner: No Dada.

Dadashri: Similarly, as they are eating, do they use the intellect that, ‘While making this lentil soup, what must have fallen into it?’ Will they wonder whether lizard droppings have fallen in it or not? Therefore, if the intellect were used, one would not be able to eat or drink. One even goes out to eat at the restaurant, but he does not use his intellect there either. What would happen if the intellect were used? Then how would anything be eaten? That is why you have to decide where to use the intellect.

Questioner: An ordinary person would not know how to use the intellect, when to use it, and where to use it, would he?

Dadashri: But have those people lost anything by not using it in this case?

Questioner: No, they haven’t.

Dadashri: And had the intellect been used, a greater loss would have been incurred. So, one loses wherever he uses his intellect. Therefore, wherever the intellect is used, there is only an undertaking of a complete loss; and where it is needed, it undoubtedly gets used within its limits. In such cases, the intellect is automatically associated with it naturally; it is well joint with the antahkaran (inner instrument in the human body consisting of four faculties: the mind, intellect, chit, and ego). Because it is used excessively, all these problems have arisen.

Interference is Only due to the Misguided Intellect

Questioner: But this intellect (buddhi) shows both the good as well as the bad.

Dadashri: No. The person who has just the necessary amount of intellect, has only enough to maintain normality, if such a person had five daughters, then a thought regarding (their character) would not arise at all. Suspicion (shanka) would only arise when a thought comes, wouldn’t it?

Questioner: So this interference (dahkal) only occurs if there is excessive intellect?

Dadashri: It is the excessive intellect itself that does the interference. This is because the intellect of this era of the current time cycle is considered misguided (viparit). It is referred to as a misleading intellect (vyabhicharini buddhi). That is why it subjects one to repeated beatings.

Questioner: So is it that the one

(Pg.8)

with only the necessary amount of intellect does not have unnecessary thoughts?

Dadashri: Yes. In India, there are some people with only the necessary amount of intellect who do not have any other thoughts. Those with excessive intellect (akkal) think more, have more intellect. Regarding those with more intellect I wonder, ‘How much beating will you have to suffer?’ Therefore, when a person has to suffer pain, when he truly has to suffer pain, then suspicion arises.

Suspicion is Interference of the Intellect

Prabhushri (disciple of the Gnani Purush Shrimad Rajchandra as known as Krupadudev) had written to Krupadudev saying, “I feel this body is going to depart soon. Therefore, when will I be able to do your darshan (devotional viewing)?” So Krupadudev wrote a letter asking, “What makes you feel you are going to depart your body?” So he replied, “My name is Lallubhai and someone else who used to come to do darshan here was also named Lallubhai. He had become sick for two or three days and then he died and I have been sick for a month. He and I have the same horoscope.” So now here, he used his intellect. Therefore, Krupadudev wrote saying, “Do not be afraid of dying.” He wrote this so that his intellect would settle down. If someone says or the doctor says, “There is no problem,” then the intellect will settle down. So is what the doctor says definitely true? He too is simply making an estimation. But you believe the doctor, so don’t you think you should believe your own Self? So, without the doctor having to tell you, just decide by yourself that, ‘There is nothing wrong. Nothing is going to happen to me.’ And when a problem comes, it is not going to let you free. So then, where is the need to have a problem? What is the reason to be afraid? Suspicion is what ‘kills’ a person even more, suspicion is what certainly ‘kills’ a person.

Questioner: So what is the root of suspicion? Why does suspicion arise?

Dadashri: Suspicion is an interference of the intellect, it is an interference of the excessive intellect. So, the intellect that creates suspicion will show everything incorrectly. It raises suspicion unnecessarily! In all the misinterpretations of the world, the biggest root cause is suspicion, and this includes doubt (vahem). Initially a doubt arises. The intellect causes doubt. Therefore, suspicion is a display of the intellect. That is why, here (on the path of Akram) I say only one thing and that is, “Do not have any kind of suspicion.” And there is no real reason to be suspicious about anything in this world. Therefore, the root of suspicion is the intellect.

Questioner: What happens if the suspicion that, ‘This man is interfering’ arises within the mind for him?

Dadashri: No one is interfering at all. The one who raises such suspicion is at fault himself. The one who raises suspicion should be thrown in jail. In fact, a person who has suspicions takes beatings. When the suspicion arises, he

(Pg.9)

takes a beating; he himself suffers. Nature, itself gives him the beating. Nobody else has to give him the beating.

How can the world remain calm even for a moment? There are so many kinds of skepticisms and so many kinds of suspicions! And there must be so much suffering in suspicion! All the forms of taap (internal burning)which exist; santaap (mental distress), paritaap (distress given not only to the self but also the other person), uttaapa (a ruckus that gets others involved)have arisen because of suspicion.

A Truly Intelligent Person is Able to Stop Interference

In Mumbai, intelligent people come (to satsang) everyday. They possess a sense of dignity. So then I ask them, “Are you intelligent?” They reply, “We are certainly beings with intellects, aren’t we?” I asked them, “Do you have quarrels at home?” So they say, “Five to seven days in a month, not more.” I told them, ‘If a person is truly intelligent, he will not have any conflict with anyone at all.” An intelligent person is actually able to stop all interferences. He can solve all kinds of interferences but he cannot end worries. Some worries are bound to happen. It is because he is on the wrong path, that’s why! But he is able to stop interferences.

Therefore, it is possible to solve a lot of suffering through appropriate intellect. Nonetheless, the homes of intelligent people who are referred to as ‘intelligencia’ are indeed filled with that very same suffering.

Intelligent People do not Interfere

In fact, when the magistrate comes home, his wife will not speak to him and nor will he speak to her. They both walk around sulking for up to fifteen days and then they claim, “We are intelligent”. Hey! What do you consider intelligence (buddhi)? One does not have intellect and yet he thinks, ‘I am intelligent’! Mortal one, if you are intelligent, then why do you have disputes with your wife? If your wife is sulking, you do not even know how to pacify her in the morning; you don’t even know how to get her to talk if you wanted to. So then you foolish man, how can that be called intelligence? The magistrate walks around sulking and his wife walks around sulking as well. That is all meaningless! Intelligent people do not interfere (dakhal) with anyone.

One who does not harm others and is not harmed in the slightest, he is considered an intelligent person. An intelligent personwill never go to bed after interfering with anyone. He will clear all his files and then sleep. He will not need an attorney, a doctor, or anyone. When there are no matabheda (divisiveness due to differences of opinions) with anyone, then realize that you are intelligent. Here once the divisiveness happens, the conflicts arise.

Conduct With Discretion Avoids Interference

Questioner: If an intelligent person works with discretion (vivek), then can he be considered intelligent?

Dadashri: Yes, using discretion he

(Pg.10)

seeks ways to increase happiness (sukha) for everyone, he does not seek ways through which happiness decreases. But instead, this mooah (the mortal one) comes home and interferes (does dakho), he ruins the atmosphere of the entire house. Why should life have to be that way? One is able to turn his life around, one is able to change his thinking.

You have to decide that, ‘I do not want to get into matabheda (divisiveness due to difference of opinion)at home.’ After deciding that, if problems arise with others, then too, there will not be any matabheda! However, it is because one does things without even setting this key, that problems arise. ‘We’ set this key first and do things thereafter.

The Intellect Makes you Interfere and Take a Fall

Intellect (buddhi) will remain as long as ego (ahamkar) exists, and as long as the intellect remains, interference exists. A vitaraag (free from attachment and abhorrence) intent will not remain there. Where there is intellect, there is danger for sure. There is no telling when the intellect will slam you to the ground.

Intellect will throw light on it sometimes. ‘We’ would understand that his intellect is making him take a fall. At that time ‘we’ remain silent, otherwise he would become more strong-headed. And the more strong-headed he becomes, the deeper he sinks into darkness; the more disrespectful (avinay) he becomes. Instead, matters should be settled with a little more humility. When one becomes disrespectful, even then ‘we’ understand that he has slipped right now. The poor man will fall any moment. What happens when you provoke someone with intellect? He will use his intellect even more and gets onto the wrong path.

The intellect’s hunger is such that it can never be quenched. In fact an end (Knowledge of the Self) is needed. The whole world dwells in intellect-based knowledge (buddhijanya gnan).

Questioner: Having come to the lotus feet of Dada, there is only liberation, right?

Dadashri: But in no time one goes back there again and gets discouraged after being slammed into the ground. The intellect keeps misleading on and on. When the intellect misleads, there is no solution, is there! Nothing can be achieved where there is no solution. Nothing can be achieved when the intellect misleads you. Neither can you do any good at home nor can you do right by God.

Entanglements are Created due to the Interference of Intellect

Questioner: The intellect creates entanglements; what is that?

Dadashri: Entanglements are due to ‘over-wiseness’. Over-wiseness means that one tries to do everything according to his own wisdom. He continues to use his wisdom in every matter. He follows the Gnani’s instruction, yet he also uses his own wisdom such that, ‘The medicine was said to be taken at 3:00 PM, but

(Pg.11)

what’s wrong with taking it at 3:15?’ Thus, he always puts in his own two cents. That is why a lot of puzzles arise.

From this day on, create vengeance with the intellect. And the intellect will still interfere. So how does the intellect interfere? At one person’s home, fifteen to twenty guests were going to come over. He wanted to make yogurt in order to prepare shrikhand (a yogurt-based pudding). So he asked a cook he knew, “Come to my house and make yogurt.” The chef came and warmed up the few gallons of milk that was there. Then after it cooled, he added about this much starter yogurt in it and stirred it. Then he instructed, “Now, keep this aside.” So the host asked, “But what do I have to do now?” The chef replied, “You do not have to do anything, simply go to bed.” The man asked, “How can that be? How can I just go to sleep?” The chef said, “Please just go to bed, and sleep soundly. When you wake up in the morning the yogurt will have formed nicely.” But the man is intelligent [overwise], isn’t’ he? So he thinks in his mind, ‘How is it going to happen just like that? I need to check on it, don’t I? I need to check it out, don’t I?’ The mortal one (mooah) one woke up at one o’clock and dipped his finger in the mixture. Thereafter there was interference(dakho) in the yogurt! The chef had said, “Check it after you wake up in the morning!” So this intellect is the one that interferes. Therefore for tonight tell the intellect, ‘Oh intellect, come to lunch at noon tomorrow, do not come before then.’ If you tell the intellect, it will listen to you immediately. This is because it stays with you everyday. So how long can it afford to stay with you and continue to fight?

You should listen to everything here [in satsang]. There are hundreds of thousands of solutions available here. You should listen here and then make the adjustments. When the intellect shows something negative within, you have to tell it, ‘Relax madam, I have not come here to learn about worldly life. I am now on the path of liberation. So do not advise me.’ Then will the intellect meddle, will it or will it not come interfere? When your own intellect shows you something negative, it is your own fault, is it not?

Due to the Intellect, one Becomes a Buffoon

Questioner: A question arises that when I was using the intellect, not a single word of yours yielded result; and since I have started leaving the intellect with my shoes outside, whatever you say here is directly accepted within. Why is that?

Dadashri: It is the intellect that is interfering in the middle, isn’t it? One becomes a buffoon because of the intellect. Once becoming a buffoon he wanders around! People will even say, “He is a buffoon!” The intellect is what causes all the trouble, isn’t it? I am lucky because I do not have intellect! Your intellect will gradually go away. My intellect has come to an end, that is why my work has been accomplished.

(Pg.12)

A Question is an Interference of the Intellect

Questioner: Why do I feel like coming to Dada even though I do not have any questions?

Dadashri: Questions are just interferences of the intellect. It is because one cannot relax that the intellect keeps interfering. Otherwise, it is better not to have any questions. What is the reason that you like coming here even when you do not have any questions? It is because Dada is your swarupa (original state of Being). You will feel like sitting with Him. That is why Shrimad Rajchandra (Gnani Purush 1867-1901) had said, “The Gnani Purush is the embodiment of the Absolute Self.” ‘We’ only say that ‘we’ are a nimit (active evidence). But you have to believe this. Once the questions cease, the body will become sahaj (spontaneous and natural).

The highest satsang (company of the Self), it is to keep Seeing Dada. If some kind of problem arises within and you cannot understand, then you may ask whatever is worth asking. Otherwise, it is all an intellectual sport! The intellect expresses itself; it shows off.

The intellect of young children can be turned around, whereas these elderly people have a lot of veils. All these youths will get ready very quickly.

Questioner: Can the veils over the elderly people be removed?

Dadashri: Of course they will go away! Yet they cannot take benefit like these young ones.

Questioner: Then what should I do?

Dadashri: What should you do? Your intellect will certainly turn around. This intellect has become separate [after attaining Knowledge of the Self and who the doer is]. The intellect is simply not needed on this path [Akram]. The intellect keeps interfering all day long. This Gnan (Knowledge) of ours has brought forth the light of awakened awareness (Gnan prakash). Once this light is attained the intellect is no longer necessary.

Interference of the Intellect Blocks Niddidhyasan

Questioner: I am not able to do Dada’s or anyone else’s inner visualization(niddhidhyasan), I am not able to visualize the photo, why is that?

Dadashri: That is because of intellect; it is the intellect (buddhi) that interferes (does dakhal).

Questioner: Then what should I do?

Dadashri: Nothing. The intellect interferes and You should Know that, ‘This intellect is something that interferes.’ It is because of this meddling that it appears that way. Many people say, “Dada, I cannot see your exact face in niddhidhyasan.” I tell them, “Your intellect is meddling in it,” but You must see it exactly as it is.

Questioner: In what way does the intellect interfere?

(Pg.13)

Dadashri: If you were doing niddhidhyasan, then it would pull you away towards something else.

Questioner: Or else, will the intellect keep telling me that, ‘Niddhidhyasan is not happening’?

Dadashri: Yes, it will also assist in saying, ‘I don’t know how.’ Its argument is all about not letting you move from the worldly life (sansaar) towards liberation. It argues with the intent to keep you bound to the worldly life and that is why it interferes this way.

Questioner: It makes me do what I don’t want to.

Dadashri: Yes, it will make you do that. So, when niddhidhyasan does not set; that is the interference of the intellect. And once niddhidhyasan is established for a person, it will not go away, even for a second.

The Result of the Interference of the Worldly Intellect

There is no problem with these four: mind-intellect-chit-ego which are in the form of antahkaran, but this is all excess intellect which is of no use at all.

This worldly life itself is interference (dakho) of the intellect. Worldly life would not have persisted had the intellect not existed. ‘Our’ intellect has finished. Therefore, the Knowledge that ‘we’ have is beyond the intellect. ‘Our’ intellect has come to an end. ‘Our’ naturalness is with Gnan.

There is Unity Through the Heart, There is Interference Through the Intellect

Questioner: We are not able to emulate your intellect-free state.

Dadashri: It is your mind which believes you are not able to. I Know that You are in the process of emulating. So you, yourself, do not know the changes that are taking place within! To See the Gnani Purush [with the unity of] the mind-speech-body, that, itself, is considered ‘with the heart’ [heartily]!

Questioner: Does that mean that when we say something wholeheartedly, then at that time, it is being said with unity of the mind-speech-body?

Dadashri: It is indeed; everything said is wholehearted. There is the unity of mind-speech-body indeed. In talks through the intellect, everything is separate. Through the intellect, everything is separate, through the heart there is unity (ekta).

Questioner: But, at the moment, people are understanding it differently, aren’t they?

Dadashri: One takes a beating according to his understanding, doesn’t he! There is unity where it is wholeheartedly and there is interference when it is through the intellect. When the interference from the intellect increases, the heart gets burnt [diminishes], and when the heart gets burnt then nothing can be attained.

(Pg.14)

Pragnya Cautions, Intellect Interferes

As long as the intellect exists, there will not be a complete solution. Therefore, where there is no intellect, there will be Knowledge (Gnan) and where there is intellect, there is no Gnan. There can be only one of the two.

People consider the intellect as being Gnan. But the intellect is an indirect light, whereas Gnan is the direct light of the Self (Atma).

Questioner: Where does the intellect end and pragnya (direct light of the Self) begin?

Dadashri: Pragnya begins before the intellect comes to an end. When one meets a Gnani Purush (One who has realized the Self and is able to do the same for others), and He makes You attain the Self, that is when pragnya begins. That very pragnya is what takes one to final liberation (moksha). Pragnya constantly cautions You within, whereas the intellect keeps on interfering within.

The Main Culprit of Interference is the ego

Questioner: Does only the intellect interfere?

Dadashri: The intellect interferes, everyone interferes. The ego, intellect, chit, and mind, they are all with interference, aren’t they! But the ego is considered as the main culprit. This is because it is the one doing the endorsement.

Questioner: In all this, the one that causes interferences, is the ego the biggest factor?

Dadashri: Then who else? All this has only been created by ego, hasn’t it?

Questioner: Please explain that with an example.

Dadashri: It’s like this; suppose this man said, “Come, it is time, let’s go and eat.” What would you say then? “Not now, I am going to come to your town to eat ponk (freshly roasted green millet).” That is called doing an interference. So shortly thereafter if you tell someone, “Let’s go to eat ponk there,” the other man will say, “That ponk has finished.” So if there is no interference of the ego, and if there is the straightforwardness (saradata) such that one follows what others say, then there is no problem. Not according to what people say, but one proceeds according to the circumstances (sanjogo). Then there is no problem. If he happens to interfere saying, “I won’t be able to do all this,” then an interference is created.

Interference Through ego of ‘I Know’

Questioner: However, everyone is caught in the web of ego.

Dadashri: Yes, they are trapped, that’s it! What is ego (ahamkar)? A weakness. When he was a child, he would bow down in respect, he would touch his toes [bending down, as a disciplinary measure]. Now that he is grown up, he does not touch his toes; the ego has increased one and half times. Then he will claim, “I know.” Hey! What do

(Pg.15)

you know? If you come to Know as it is, then tension will not remain, will it! Then what would there be tension about? All the tension is only due to this interfering. He believes, ‘That other man does not know anything and I know something’. Where does the need to do such meddling remain? This is exactly what the interference is. In fact, one knows neither right nor wrong. What is referred to as knowing? After knowing there is poison in a bottle, would someone ever touch it?

Questioner: One would not touch it.

Dadashri: And if he touches it then I know that he is simply talking as if he knows, he is doing egoism that, “I know, I know” but he does not know anything at all. If he had known then he would not have touched the poison again. It is simply that people have egoism of knowing! And all that is shushka gnan (knowledge which does not bear fruits). Knowledge should be pure, such that it makes you conduct according to it. Once knowing a bottle has poison in it, you would not touch it at all, would you! That is how the knowledge should be.

Therefore the, “I understand and I know” that one speaks of, is simply egoism. If one understands, then he will not do wrong. However, one has not yet understood at all.

The Interference of ego Should Remain in Awareness

Questioner: The intoxication from that ego is more than that of alcohol; it never wears off.

Dadashri: An ascetic (sadhu) decides that, ‘I should not be crooked and obstinate’ as Lord Mahavira had said, “vank jaday pacchima”(people of the later times will be crooked and obstinate). So one should keep his attentive awareness (laksha) on not being crooked and obstinate, then a solution will come about for it. In the same way, there is not a problem with being ‘crooked and obstinate’ in Akram Vignan, however, the interference of ego should remain in attentive awareness. Mad ego certainly exists within you. One has to keep attentive awareness on it. Are there traces of the mad ego unfolding or not? Is it still there?

Questioner: Now there is not that much. There is some lying there, but not much.

Dadashri: No, but it is sitting in there. So if it is sitting there in such a small amount, then tomorrow it won’t take long to grow. It should be removed from all its’ roots, then it will be useful.

Kashaya Persist due to Interference of ego

The interference is only due to the ego. This world has perpetuated only because of egoism. Anger-pride-deceit-greed are under the control of the ego. If the ego is not there, then the anger-pride-deceit-greed that are there, are [really] not there. This is because, their foundation is ego and the ego, itself, is founded on something else. Its root cause is ignorance

(Pg.16)

(aGnanta). But the ignorance which certainly exists, has spread throughout the world. Therefore, what is the foundation of anger-pride-deceit-greed? Ego. What is the foundation of the world? Ego! If ego is removed, anger-pride-deceit-greed can’t do anything. They all become lifeless.

So after attaining this Knowledge (Gnan), ignorance vanishes, and therefore, the ego has vanished. That is why, anger-pride-deceit-greed don’t happen, and if they do happen, then You See it. Once You See it, it does not happen to You. This is because they cannot happen to the Seer. If a bonfire were burning outside, would the eyes also burn? Similarly, the Seer doesn’t get ‘burned’. And the one to whom this egoism happens also has anger-pride-deceit-greed, and there, the eyes will even get ‘burned’. This is because one is not the Seer in that case, he is the doer of egoism.

Questioner: If One becomes the Seer, does he become separate?

Dadashri: Yes, he becomes separate. When the mind is filled with anger and the ego gets involved in it, that is when it is called as anger (krodha), otherwise it is called only gusso (anger without violent intent). I have removed everyone’s ego. Anger-pride-deceit-greed cannot do anything to these people [mahatmas]. They [anger-pride-deceit-greed] have become baseless and once they have become baseless, they fall off. As long as the ego of, ‘I am the one, I am the one’ exists, not a single one of the anger-pride-deceit-greed can be defeated.

Interference due to the ‘I’ Becoming Sensitive

In fact, there is slight interference such that, ‘I am something, I am something’; this ‘I’ (hu) has been left behind. One tries to get rid of this ‘I’ but is not able to remove it.

The ego has come to believe, ‘I am something,’ hasn’t it! When you say anything, all the words will backfire [when someone] says, “What is it to you?” So can you not realize that the other person is shoving your words back into your mouth? Then how can you even speak again? Whatever baggage there is; it all belongs to the ego. As long as it has not been pulled out completely with its roots, it will not take long for it to grow all over again. There is no telling in what circumstance and when it may arise. So what is to be done about it? Ignorance is gone now. Now efforts must be made to dig out the ego. The necessary [discharging] ego is dramatic for sure. But within there is another that is silently entangling, and that is not easily detectible.

That ‘I’ (hu) has become sensitive that is why all this interference (dakho)happens. I said, “Hey! It is not there in anything! I, myself, am not in anything, so where have you come from?” Even then that hu does not leave for you. Otherwise this Knowledge is such that it manifests and shines gloriously. What do you want this hu for? In fact, hu has to be removed. So let me give you the understanding of my technique. It is not worth interfering in anything.

(Pg.17)

In fact one has something to say in every matter. Suppose someone talks about a watch and you would need to put your two bits in, “This happens, that happens…” Hey, what do you even know about? People don’t even know how to evacuate their bowels and yet they interfere unnecessarily and keep saying, “hu, hu” The poor people are under the control of their karma.

The ego Will not Refrain From Interfering

Questioner: Is all that is happening in life happening according to past karma?

Dadashri: Yes, then what else? And if you do not bind new karma, then there is no problem.

Questioner: If a person has been engaged in bad activities because of the effect of past karma, but he now wants to engage in good activities, then would he be able to? Can he bring about changes in that which is going on right now due to past karma?

Dadashri: The ego can be somewhat changed. That which has already been designed cannot be changed. And where there is no ego, nothing can change.

As long as the ego exists, it brings on changes. This is because it cannot refrain from interfering. After attaining Gnan (Knowledge of the Self and who the doer is), the ego has been destroyed, so what was it that you called it?

Questioner: Krambaddha paryaya.

Dadashri: We [in Akram Vignan] call it ‘Vyavasthit, Scientific Circumstantial Evidence’ and they [Kramik path] call it ‘krambaddha paryaya’ (sequential phases). This is true only after the ego has been destroyed. There is no term for it if Gnan has not been attained, because the ego may set off a bomb blast at any time.

It is Avyavasthit as Long as the ego Interferes

Questioner: Everything is Vyavasthit (Scientific Circumstantial Evidence); it is a result of karma, so everything arises according to the intent we had made, however is there any purushartha (independent effort) behind this intent (bhaavna)? Can the intent be changed by purushartha or is that also part of Vyavasthit?

Dadashri: No, that is not Vyavasthit. Through intent you do purushartha. Vyavasthit helps only to the extent that the ego is absent. As long as the ego exists, it cannot be referred to as Vyavasthit. Therefore, through the ego one makes it avyavasthit (disorganized). That is why it can be changed through one’s intent. The world is certainly Vyavasthit but because the ego exists, it cannot refrain from meddling. If it does not meddle, then it is as it should be; it is exact! The ego keeps interfering in one way or another. It will create misery (dukha) where none exists.

Questioner: As long as there is ego, the world is avyavasthit, isn’t it?

Dadashri:The world is indeed Vyavasthit, but the ego will not stop from

(Pg.18)

toppling it. It will disorganize that which is organized!

Questioner: Whatever work is done, can that not be considered as Vyavasthit?

Dadashri: But how can Vyavasthit ever be like this?

There is enmity (ver) between the one with the ego and Vyavasthit. The two cannot be together. There is Vyavasthit for the one who is egoless (nirahamkari). Ego will even destroy the ‘father’ [authority] of Vyavasthit! Therefore, as long as ego is present, it cannot be referred to as Vyavasthit. Vyavasthit is only applicable for discharge of karma. There is no Vyavasthit in charge karma.

You never know what one may do? Therefore, there is no Vyavasthit in it at all. The ego simply interferes.

Prarabhda Exists With Interferences

Questioner: Are Vyavasthit (Scientific Circumstantial Evidence) and prarabdha (karma that is destined to give effect) closely related words, or is there a difference between the two?

Dadashri: No, there is a great difference.

Questioner: What is the difference?

Dadashri: No change is going to happen in Vyavasthit. And what is a prarabdhavadi (one who believes effect to be real) like? He has a ‘live’ ego and it will not refrain from interfering, and here [in Akram Vignan] it is not a ‘live’ ego. And that is why it is called exact Vyavasthit, and prarabdha is based on Vyavasthit. However, prarabdha includes interferences (dakha); it cannot be referred to as Vyavasthit. After attaining the Gnan (Knowledge of the Self and who the doer is), then this Vyavasthit applies! If other people [those without Gnan] use it they will become fooled, because there is interference for them, whereas this looks at all surrounding circumstances. It will tell you, ‘It is not worth going there; make a compromise’. That other [without Gnan] has arisen through interfering, has it not? It will not refrain from interfering.

Wherever there is ego, there is prarabdha, and Vyavasthit is without any ego. Vyavasthit means exact. Prarabdha keeps changing due to interference from the ego. Ego is ‘alive’, is it not? If there is no ego, then it is Vyavasthit; it is exact.

Questioner: The one with prarabdha is ‘alive’, and the one with Vyavasthit is ‘dead’.

Dadashri: In prarabdha, the ego is alive. He whose ego is ‘dead’ will attain liberation (moksha). And in prarabdha the ego is ready to interfere, all kinds of problems arise there. Vyavasthit is exactness; no one can change that.

Outside [to those without Gnan], it can only be considered prarabdha, it cannot be considered Vyavasthit outside. Here your [mahatmas] prarabdha (karma that is destined to give effect) is without any new interference, and therefore only

(Pg.19)

(Pg.20)

(Pg.21)

(Pg.22)

(Pg.23)

Vyavasthit remains. Whereas prarabdha [for non-mahatmas] has interference in it.

What is prarabdha? It means to suffer [pleasure or pain] karma through bhoktabhaav ( a sense of being the sufferer), and create new karma through kartabhaav (a sense of doership). Both, bhoktabhaav and kartabhaav, arise in prarabdha. Now interference arises due to a sense of doership, and bhoktabhaav is without any interference. After attaining Self-realization through Akram Vignan, doership is gone, and so only bhoktabhaav remains. That is what ‘we’ refer to as Vyavasthit.

Future Life Instilled by Interference of ego

Questioner: What must the advantage of the ego be?

Dadashri: The ego does not do anything at all, so what advantage can there be through the ego? The ego always causes damage; it interferes. So tell me, what damage does the ego do? These people do egoism yet what profit do they acquire? Though one has so much ego, he is not really a doer, yet he is making the aarop (false attribution) and that is why he gets the results in the next life. He is projecting a next life for himself!

Questioner: He is suffering the effect of old [past] karma and in that he believes that, ‘I did this.’

Dadashri: Yes, he is suffering; there is no egoism to be done in that, is there!

It is this ego that creates all these interferences. This ego does no other work at all. It does two things. It paints a picture of the next life, and secondly, it creates interferences. You want a next life, don’t you? You will need a [connecting] train in the next life, won’t you? When you reach the junction, you will get down, but you will need another train, won’t you?

The Interference is of the Pratishthit Atma, the Pure Soul is Gnata-Drashta

The moment one instills the belief, ‘I am Chandulal (reader to insert his or her name here), I did this, I did that,’ it immediately gives rise to a new form, and that form then bears result. Just as you instill (pratishtha) life in a stone idol and it starts to bear results, in the same manner we are giving rise to this instillation [of the causal body]. Pratishthit atma (the self that has wrong beliefs) forms according to the instillation that is done. The old pratishthit atma gives rise to a new instillation. The ‘Chandulal’ of today is the pratishthit atma of the past, which, in turn, continues to createprojections such as, ‘I am Chandulal. I am his maternal uncle, I am his paternal uncle,’ all such further projections are made.

All the activities are done only by the pratishthit atma (the self that has wrong beliefs). The pure Soul (Shuddhatma) does not do anything at all. All movement, walking, are intrinsic properties of the non-Self (anatma) and not of the Self (Atma). The Self does not sleep during the day nor does it sleep during the night. The non-Self sleeps. The one that performs the activities is

(Pg.24)

the one that needs rest. The Self does not do anything at all, so why would it need any rest? Who seeks rest? It is the one who is interested in rest. Who is that? The pratishthit atma. All these activities are of the pratishthit atma. Who is the one that Knows whether the pratishthit atma had sound sleep or not? Who is the one that Knows its activity. The pure Soul. The pure Soul does not interfere whatsoever in any activity of the pratishthit atma, it only Sees and Knows. The interference is done by the pratishthit atma. That which the pratishthit atma knows is called gneya (object to be known) and the One that Knows the pratishthit atma as gneya (object to be known), that is the pure Soul (Shuddhatma). Why does the pratishthit atma interfere? It is because it is interested. The pure Soul has no such interest. It is the Knower-Seer and in eternal bliss. The Self illuminates the Self and the non-Self whereas the pratishthit atma only illuminates the non-Self. The pure Soul also Sees and Knows the pratishthit atma. Therefore, the pratishthit atma is gneya (object to be known) and the Self is the Gnata (the Knower). The relation between pure Soul and pratishthit atma is only that of the Knower and object to be known.

A Dead ego Does not Create a new Interference

The ego departs as soon as ‘we’ impart the Gnan (Knowledge of the Self and who the doer is). However, which ego remains? There are two types of ego. One type of ego keeps on discharging and the other ego charges. Now, the discharge still remains with us, so the discharge ego will persist. Whereas the charge ego refers to that which gives rise to new [karma]; all that has been exhausted. Discharge ego means that it cannot create new [karma] and the old ones that exist are brought to a final conclusion and that means one becomes free. The other one is referred to as ‘living,’ whereas, after attaining Gnan, this is referred to as ‘dead’ (that which only has to be suffered) ego.

Questioner: But, aren’t phases (paryaya) created from it again?

Dadashri: No, nothing will happen from it.

Questioner: So will this string that has been wrapped become unwrapped by itself?

Dadashri: Yes, that’s all, simply by itself. It is considered as the result. What does Vyavasthit (Scientific Circumstantial Evidence) mean? Result. Nothing needs to be done in the result; it keeps on happening by itself. ‘You’ have to remain as the Knower-Seer (Gnata-Drashta).

Scars Remain, That is why Interference Persists

After this Knowledge (Gnan) has been imparted, what kinds of interference remain? The scars remain left behind. So he applies this, applies that, gets up and goes to sleep again. That is why ‘we’ say that these three ‘ghosts’ of mind-speech-body have possessed you; it is based on this that the example of Kashi came about.

(Pg.25)

If all these connections are found, then the work will be accomplished, won’t it?

When the exorcist strikes, he beats Kashi, but the injury occurs to Chanchal [the ghost who has possessed Kashi]! Why must that be? Even as Kashi eats, Chanchal ends up eating that food! If Kashi drinks, then too, Chanchal ends up drinking the water! All the influence is indeed hers [Chanchal’s]! If a ghost possesses Kashi, then all the influence is the ghost’s. The one that sleeps is also the ghost. So that is why when the beating is done, the injury happens to her as well. When the exorcist strikes, she says, “I am leaving.” Then he asks, “Who are you?” And she will say [in English], “I am Chanchal.” Now, Kashi had not studied English and yet she would answer in English. What is the reason for that? It is because it is Chanchal’s influence. So, when all this happens, who was injured? It all happened to Chanchal. Chanchal was injured but the scars remain on Kashi! Similarly, all this happens to you, all of worldly life takes place, but the beatings that happen, happen to the ego. And when the ego is fractured, the scars remain behind. So they have to be nursed and bandaged properly.

If you beat up a drunk, then who gets hurt then? The one whose influence it is. The other person doesn’t get hurt at all. Once the intoxication subsides, the scars remain behind. So that is why, the other person [the now sober one] keeps feeling the burning pain. The influence of the ghost is similar to the influence of alcohol. The one whose influence is prevailing suffers everything.

The ego suffers everything. The pain is suffered by the ego and pleasure is also suffered by the ego. It only applies to the one whose influence prevails. It may be the ego’s influence, it may be the ghost’s influence, or it may be the alcohol’s influence. When there is alcohol’s influence, he will say things like, “I am King Sayajirav.” So you will know that his own influence is not prevailing then!

The heat is applied to Kashi yet Chanchal gets burned. Chanchal is not able to tolerate it so she screams out saying, “I am leaving”. Thereafter, the scars remain on poor Kashi.

The ego of today is discharge ego, it is the ego from the past [life]. Based on the causes that were sown, You are suffering its results. Even if you want remove it, it will not go away.

Pending due to the Interference of the Lifeless ego

For those who have attained this Gnan, their charging has stopped. The sense of, ‘I am doing it’ is destroyed, and ‘Vyavasthit does everything and the pure Soul is the Knower-Seer of everything’ remains. You simply have to keep Seeing whatever happens. Therefore, the entire state as the doer, which was the cause for charging is completely gone. Thereafter, whatever discharge remains needs to be settled.

Questioner: Is it the nishchetan

(Pg.26)

chetan (discharging self) that interferes in the process of settling?

Dadashri: The one that interferes there is not nischchetan chetan, it is the lifeless ego. Yes, but the one that interferes spoils it. Otherwise, it had only come about for the purpose of getting settled.

Questioner: Therefore, the one that has become separate as the relative self (pratishthit atma), will it get discharged (galan) by itself provided no interference of any kind is created within it?

Dadashri: Yes, it will depart naturally on its own.

Questioner: If one interferes, then will the interference continue to happen within?

Dadashri: That interference is done by the ego of the past, the lifeless ego interferes. And that lifeless egoism is pampered by the intellect. The intellect harasses, that’s all. Otherwise, it is naturally unwinding.

The Interference of the Intellect Persists due to old Habits

Questioner: After attaining this Gnan, the intellect (buddhi) which keeps arising should not arise if there is Gnan; and is there no Gnan where there is intellect? So why does that keep on happening?

Dadashri: No, all this that keeps happening is due to your old habits; that is why the intellect is being misused. Therefore, ‘we’ give you Agnas (five directives that preserve the awareness as the Self in Akram Vignan). If you remain in those Agnas, the intellect will not be used. But that old habit you have from the past is not going away. And because of that old habit it is seen in this way. It will take a few years for that habit to go away and if the intellect dissolves, then even this discharging ego will also dissolve.

Questioner: As long as the discharging ego exists, are the phases of the intellect bound to arise?

Dadashri: Of course they will! But when that discharge ego comes at certain stage the intellect will be considered as good as gone. So as long as it is in the higher stage, it [the intellect] will continue to go down and then completely go away. Then you will not feel that, ‘There is intellect within me.’

Questioner: So as I remain in the Agnas more, will the interference decrease gradually?

Dadashri: Then the (intellect) will not interfere. Forget the intellect! Become the pure Soul, I am pure Soul!

When interference of one's ego and intellect go away, that is when a person will attain his own salvation.

The Intellect Interferes, Gnan Purifies

Questioner: Does the intellect interfere even after Knowledge (Gnan) gives result?

Dadashri: Yes, it will interfere. On one hand, Gnan purifies it. The intellect

(Pg.27)

interferes, whereas whatever gets purified is our gain. If You remain as the Knower, then the interference the intellect did is negligible; the interference that had been done dissipates. The intellect will not refrain from interfering, will it?

Questioner: Is that what is considered charitra moha (discharge illusory attachment)?

Dadashri: That indeed is charitra moha. Charitra moha is entirely subservient to the intellect. Darshan moha (the conviction that, ‘I am Chandubhai’) is the power of a strong intellect and charitra moha is the power of a weakened intellect. What is charitra moha? The intellect that has come in order to come to an end; whereas with darshan moha, the intellect cannot come to end, the intellect keeps on increasing. There is no problem with charitra moha.If an ultimate closure (nivedo) is brought about, then there is no problem. When you do not have attachment(raag) or abhorrence (dwesha) towards charitra moha, that is referred to as being vitaraag (free from attachment and abhorrence). Suppose your child were to incur a loss of one hundred thousand rupees, what would your charitra moha say? ‘You did not understand right from the start. You never had commonsense from the beginning and that is why you’ve ruined everything.’ That is all charitra moha. You, Yourself, will understand that, ‘This was a mistake. What I have said is wrong.’ At that time, he [file one] will erase it. [Yet] he ends up saying something to him and interfering.

Questioner: To end up interfering is charitra moha and yet Gnan erases it.

Dadashri: One with darshan moha does not find ultimate closure (nivedo). It has become certain that ultimate closure will be attained by those with charitra moha regardless of how powerful it may be.

Charitra Moha Only if you Interfere

Do you possess any charitra moha (discharge illusory attachment) at all? How can You have it?

Questioner: This is indeed charitra moha, is it not?From the time I get up in the morning till the evening, isn’t it all charitra moha?

Dadashri: No, that is not considered as charitra moha.

Questioner: All this that I do, what is it considered then?

Dadashri: No, whatever is going on is not considered charitra moha. The interference you do in it is considered charitra moha.

Questioner: Is it only charitra moha if I interfere in it?

Dadashri: Yes, it is charitra moha if you interfere in it. Otherwise, it would have been considered charitra moha when Lord Mahavira was walking. How would He have been able to walk? So, it is not like that. Lord Mahavira used to eat, He used to walk; He used to do everything.

There is as Much Charitra Moha as There is Interference

The real meaning of charitra moha

(Pg.28)

is interference(dakho); the eating, the drinking, the fact that you drink tea, it is not that. But yes, to say, “I cannot do without tea,” is interference. “I cannot do without anything,” is interference. Whatever comes should be acceptable. Then the next time over, the one who has no inclination (spruha) of any kind, has no interference; he will not have any problems.

Sleeping at night is not charitra moha, but after going to bed, it is charitra moha to say, “It is very hot today.” There is no problem with sleeping, there is no problem with eating. To eat is not considered charitra moha, but when you say, “This vegetable dish is not good,” then that is charitra moha. So accept whatever is easy; comes naturally. If it is not conducive, do not eat it, if it is conducive, eat it, but do not say anything. No interference at all. There is as much charitra moha as there is interference.

Questioner: During the rest of the time is one the Knower-Seer (Gnata-Drashta)?

Dadashri: One is indeed the Knower-Seer. If there is no interfering, then he is the Knower-Seer. But one cannot refrain from interfering. If one buys expensive mangos and they turn out to be a bit sour, the other will say, “It would have been better had you told me before going. I would have told you to buy them from a certain shop.” One will even say that. One cannot refrain from interfering, but he will even know that, ‘This was interference; this should not happen.’

All Except That Which is Natural is Interference

Questioner: Is this vidhi (special silent blessings done by the Gnani Purush) we do charitra moha?

Dadashri: There is nothing wrong in doing the vidhi, but there is interference when you say, “I have to do the vidhi; it will not do if I don’t do it”. If you receive it naturally and spontaneously, it is fine and if you do not receive it, then too it is fine, but there should be no interference. There should be no interference whatsoever in anything. If you get to drink tea, it is fine and if you don’t, that is also fine. To remember it is also interference!

Questioner: Is it charitra moha to remember about eating?

Dadashri: No, to think about eating is not charitra moha. To get hungry is not charitra moha. [To think] ‘What will I eat’ when you are hungry, that is charitra moha. ‘I feel like eating this’ is charitra moha. There is no objection to your eating or drinking. Even if one eats twenty-two rotlis (flat unleavened bread), God does not have any objection with it. It is the people who a problem with it so they will say, “He eats a lot!” Then the next day, if there are only two rotlis, then he will eat two but there should be no interference.

Questioner: So there is total naturalness (sahaj)?

(Pg.29)

Dadashri: Anything other than sahaj, is interference. Now wherever there is an interference, become sahaj. If you become sahaj there, then you have nothing to do with it; You are indeed free.

Questioner: And if one does not eat or drink; then can that be considered as kriya? What is that called?

Dadashri: No, it is not considered kriya (action). When you say, “I am doing it” that is considered kriya. That which happens naturally and spontaneously is not. “I am doing it”, “I cannot do without taking a bath”; that is all considered kriya. One is considered to have become the doer.

The Filled Stock Itself is Full of Interference

Discharge illusory attachment will automatically dissolve, provided ‘You’ do not interfere in it. Do not interfere, and continue to See what happen.

Questioner: But I understand it to be charitra moha (discharge illusory attachment). The interference happens even if I continue to See and Know.

Dadashri: The Gnata-Drashta (Knower-Seer) does not have interference. The charitra moha has interference. One says, “I will not come right now,” that will then result as interference. This is because the filled stock itself is full of interference. So the charitra moha full of interference is what comes out. The Gnata-Drashta will not have any other additional qualities. The interference that happens is not You, but it is the charitra moha that interferes.

Questioner: But Dadaji, what is conduct without interference like?

Dadashri: A little interference will indeed exist, because the charitra moha was bound through ignorance, wasn’t it! And it is to be Seen in the presence of Gnan. It was bound in ignorance, wasn’t it? That is why a slight amount of interference is bound to be present.

To Create Interference Versus the Interference That Ends up Happening

Questioner: But (that interference) will then come into Vyavasthit (Scientific Circumstantial Evidence) later, won’t it?

Dadashri: Even that is all Vyavasthit, but it appears as interference (dakho). So someone will tell you, “Dear man, you created interference in this, again?” But it is definitely Vyavasthit. There he has not choice but do it. ‘He did it’, to say that, is a figurative expression. Truly it was not done; it had been done, previously.

To create interferenceversus the interferences that ends up happening are two different things. The doer of interference (dakho) is the one who interferes, and for some the interference happens even when they do not want to; that goes into charitra moha. And the one who ‘does’ it; that goes into his own illusory attachment (moha).

New Interferences in Discharging Interference

Questioner: When two people are

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talking and we interrupt, then is that considered to have created an interference? Or is it my discharge?

Dadashri: By creating interference, interference ends up happening.

Questioner: How does it happen by creating interference?

Dadashri: If they ask you why you interrupted and you say, “I will not do it again,” then it is not interference. If instead you say, “If I do not say anything, then nothing will get done; everything will be ruined.” That is interference (dakho). To interrupt, that it is interference, but even that interference is discharge. Now, even during discharge interference, a new interference happens. What is referred to as discharge interference? If someone says, “Do not speak. I do not want to listen to what you have to say.” Then you say, “Fine, I will not say anything.” All that interference is discharge. It is not considered interference. It is called interference when you are asked not to say a word, and yet you say, “You do not listen, at least listen to what I have to say.” Does that happen or not?

Questioner: It does indeed happen, Dada. It surely happens wherever there is insistence (aagraha).

Dadashri: That insistence is indeed the interference. Next time you should say that, “I am requesting you that it would be nice if you do it this way.” That is not a form of interference. However, one still interferes after attaining the Gnan. His habit will not stop, will it?

The Interference Done is Also a Part of the Design

Questioner: So the illusory attachment (moha) in one’s conduct (vartan), is that of the ego? Whose is it?

Dadashri: The ego’s of course, who else’s? The pure Soul(Shuddhatma) is indeed separate. And the body complex of discharge moha is separate. The complex of discharge moha eats and drinks and that too, it eats because it is the eater(aahari). The one who is the walker(vihari) is the one who is walking.

Questioner: It walks, but that too, it has moha for walking in a certain way; is that what you are saying?

Dadashri: Yes, You should See that. One’s design is just that way, it is not a new design.

Questioner: Now all the worldly interaction (vyavahar) is opening up according to this design.

Dadashri: Everything continues to happen according to the design that was planned. Now the planning that takes place in Government, it often works out according to the plan, however occasionally, the design changes on site, at the last minute. Such a change cannot be done here.

Questioner: Now for example, the job I have with a certain company, mustn’t it all be working according to the design?

Dadashri: Hmm [yes].

Questioner: So then when I

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interfere in it by saying, “I am fed up with this, I don’t want this,” then …

Dadashri: That is indeed the design, isn’t it! If ever You were to remain separate in this design and See what he (the relative self) is doing, then You are separate.

Questioner: So then the Self….

Dadashri: Remains Knower-Seer(Gnata-Drashta) of that. Even if Chandubhai (the relative self) appears to have become confrontational, if You remain as the Knower-Seer,then it is enough.

Questioner: The part that creates interference (dakho-dakhal) in the design, is that also a part of the design?

Dadashri: The interferences created are also a part of the design. ‘You’ are to become separate and See.

If One is the Knower-Seer of the Antahkaran Then no Interference Remains

After acquiring this Gnan (Knowledge of the Self and who the doer is), You simply have to See what ‘Chandubhai’ (reader to insert their own name here) is doing. Chandubhai is the gneya (object to be known) and You are the Gnata (Knower). Not just Chandubhai alone, but You should also keep Seeing what his mind, intellect, chit and ego are doing.

You have to keep on checking to see whether the mind, intellect, chit, and ego are functioning according to their own gunadharma (intrinsic properties that have a specific function). If You remain in the state of pure Soul then there is no problem. If the antahkaran (inner instrument in the human body consisting of four faculties: the mind, intellect, chit, and ego) remains in its gunadharma, such that the mind does the work of showing pamphlets, the chit shows the scenes, the intellect makes the decisions, the ego endorses those decisions, then everything functions properly. It remains in its gunadharma, and the pure Soul (Shuddhatma) remains in its gunadharma, in the state as the Knower and the Seer, then it is such that no problem will arise. Each component is indeed in its own gunadharma. You should check which component of the antahkaran is not is not in its gunadharma, and if it is disrupted, all you have to do is know how to fix them. Instead the mortal one claims, “I thought about it, I am speaking, only I am doing it.” Even the arms and legs are in their respective gunadharma and yet one says, “I walked.” He is merely exercising egoism and has believed that very ego to be his own Self (Atma). That is indeed the interference.

Questioner: Whenever I do japa (chant God’s name), at that time, thoughts are also going on, and there is also the seer who sees that these thoughts are going on and the chanting is also going on. So who are these three? Who is the one doing the chanting, who is the one who is thinking? And who is the seer?

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Dadashri: The mind is doing the thinking, the speech is doing the chanting and the seer is the blind ego along with the intellect. The ego is blind and it sees through the intellect. The Self(Atma) is not being used in this. There is not even the slightest bit, not even a hair’s worth, of the Self being used in the things that the living beings do in this world. All that is only the ego.

All the interference is just because of that. It speaks one way, and it also speaks another way. There are so many things within. On the one side there is the Self and on the other side there is a big crowd; a crowd of vikalp (the belief that ‘I am Chandubhai’ and all the relative ‘I-ness’ that stems from it).

By Interfering the in the Function of the Antahkaran, Interference Happens

When the mind is in its religion-natural function (dharma), then good thoughts may arise and bad thoughts may also arise, nonetheless, it is in its own dharma. However, when good thoughts arise, one says, “My thoughts are good.” So due to illusion (bhranti) one becomes engrossed (tanmayakar) with the thoughts. Whereas when bad thoughts arise, one remains separate from the thoughts and says, “I have these bad thoughts even though I do not want to!” The function of each component of the antahkaran is different. The function of the mind is separate, the function of the chit is separate, the function of the intellect is separate and the function of the ego is separate. But one interferes in it and creates an interference! One becomes engrossed within, that itself, is the illusion.

If You try to ‘do’ that which is not Your natural function (dharma), then an interference happens.

Mind, intellect and chit are all within their own function. You are interfering in that. ‘You’ does not refer to the Self; it is the ‘I’ who is the wedge between these two. Why is there egoism? It is due to the arising of wrong belief.

Do not Interfere With the Flow of Water

What would happen if a passenger sitting next to the car driver grabs hold of the driver’s hand when there is a bus coming directly at them? Mortal one (mooah) there would be an accident! So people are smart. Even when a bus is coming towards them, they do not grab the steering because they know that the steering is in the hands of the driver. The one whose job it is will manage. People understand this obvious example of a car, but how can they understand what is happening within? So one ends up interfering and that is why interference happens. There would not be any interference if you were to understand the internal matters in the same way that you leave everything to the car driver.

You should not interfere with flowing water. It flows on its own; no one is going to hinder it from that. Once

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the interference happens, then the spoilt result (dakho) happens.

Know-See the Natural Function of the Antahkaran

On what basis does this worldly life (sansaar) exist? If the mind is shouting in the antahkaran, then one takes hold of and answers its ‘phone calls’. The ego answers the intellect’s phone calls, the chit’s phone calls. Know and See the natural function (dharma) which the mind, intellect, chit, and the ego carry out. ‘You’ (as the Self) should not answer anyone’s phone calls. ‘You’ are the Knower-Seer (Gnata-Drashta) of what functions the eyes, ears, nose, and so on are carrying out. If You answer the calls of the mind, the chit, or any anyone else, then conflicts will arise everywhere So let whoever the call was meant for answer the phone; You should not do it.

The State of Mahatmas’ Antahkaran

What is the state of the antahkaran of mahatmas (Self-realized ones) on the Akram path? Interference and its reactions (dakho dakhal) have stopped for them. However, when effects of the past karma unfold, he becomes confused with, ‘These are indeed my effects.’ When he asks me, “Are these my effects or someone else’s?” I tell him, “These are someone else’s effects.”

If you do not support it [the antahkaran]and instead simply keep Seeing it, then You are separate. For as long as you continue to See it, the chit (subtle component of vision and knowledge in the antahkaran) will continue to purify. If the chit alone becomes pure, everything else will become pure too. One wanders life after life because of the impure chit. Therefore, this yoga [union with the Self] is only to be properly established until the chit becomes purified.

There is no Interference in the Gnani’s Antahkaran

The Gnani (the One with Knowledge of the Self) stays outside of (separate from) this body and continues to See the hair that is moving, what the mind is doing, what the chit and ego are doing and what interference the intellect is causing. A Gnani Sees all of that.

Questioner: Please explain the sentence in the Aptasutra (compilation of Dadashri’s aphorisms), ‘How does the Gnani’s antahkaran work? If potey (the awakened one in Akram Vignan) moves away [no longer becomes engrossed in the non-Self complex], then the Self is separate indeed from the antahkaran.’

Dadashri: On the one side, the antahkaran carries out the worldly activities, and on the other, the Self ‘does’ its work. The Gnani does not have dakho dakhal (interference and its effects).

The antahkaran is referred to that which gives rise to the intent of doership (karta bhaav). It is that from which the intent that, ‘I am doing something’ arises. The Gnani is separate from the antahkaran. After attaining Gnan, really, the intent of doership does not remain for You, but relatively, doership remains, meaning that the discharge doership remains. However, for You, there still remains a slight

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interference, whereas for the Gnani Purush, that interference no longer remains. If potey (the awakened one in Akram Vignan)moves away, then the Self is indeed separate from the antahkaran. Potey has been residing in this antahkaran; that ‘one’ now moves away.

Questioner: Who is ‘potey’? Please give the definition of that potey.

Dadashri: That verily is the ‘I-ness’ (potapanu). If ‘we’ tell you, ‘Let’s go to the park” and you say, “No, I will not come. I do not like to go there.” That is indeed ‘I-ness’. The Gnani Purush does not have ‘I-ness’. So he goes wherever you tell him to.

Once the Potapanu Leaves, Interferences Cease

If there is Gnan (Knowledge of Self and who the doer is) then ‘I-ness’ will leave, otherwise ‘I-ness’ will not leave.

Questioner: The ‘I-ness’ may have gone yet many times interference(dakho) happens again.

Dadashri: But how can it have even gone when you say thatinterference happens? It does not appear that anyone’s ‘I-ness’ has gone. Once it leaves there would be no interference again. Once the interference leaves, it will not do any interference again. It is not something that increases or decreases. It is a precise thing. Once it is gone; it is gone; it will not be seen again. Do you feel as if it is partly gone but it also partly remains? No, it is not like that. This ‘I-ness’ is not something that it will return, once it leaves. To begin with, this ‘I-ness’ is something that is not likely to go, is it! In fact, this is the first time this subject about ‘departure of I-ness’ is even being discussed. ‘We’ do not have any ‘I-ness’.

When Interference in Antahkaran Ends, Then One Becomes God

If one moves away, the Self (Atma) is indeed separate from the antahkaran. After separation, the Gnani’s antahkaran itself continues to work naturally (swabhavik). This is because the interference and its effects stop, don’t they! Therefore, the work of the antahkaran is done best and only where it is necessary. What is more, it becomes beneficial to people. When the Atma (Self) becomes separate, the activities of worldly life will carry on naturally; that verily is called sahaj (natural and spontaneous). In each and every worldly activity, the mind, intellect, chit, and ego remain present; and in that, One [the Gnani] prevails in complete awareness (jagruti), remains absolutely free from attachment and abhorrence (vitaraag).

Now, in spite of the existence of the mind, intellect, chit and ego, One prevails in the awakened awareness of, ‘This is him [file one] and this is ‘I’ (the Self)’. ‘We’ prevail in a completely vitaraag state. The Gnani’s antahkaran becomes just like the pure Soul. Therefore, others would indeed feel that, ‘This man is just like God!’ Otherwise, people do not accept one who has interference (dakho dakhal) to be God. And one becomes God when the antahkaran becomes clear; right here one becomes God!

~ Jai Sat Chit Anand