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Table of Contents

February 2018 - Dadavani - English

EDITORIAL

Purusharth Against Interference

Worldly Interaction Without Interference, Through the Agnas

Interference and Its Effects Due to the Overwise Intellect

Interference Seeps in Through the Sprouts of the Intellect

Recognize That Which Is Yours and That Which Is Not Yours

Recognize That the Mischief of the Intellect is Wrong

How Can the Interfering Intellect Be Recognized?

Intellect Decreases Only When the Light of Knowledge Increases

Limit of the Use of the Intellect

The Interference of the Intellect Remains Even After Gnan

Get Rid of the Interfering Intellect

Recognize the Intellect that Creates Interference

Know the Interference Effects of the Intellect

Listening to the Advice of the Intellect Creates Interference and Its Effects

The Interference of the Intellect Remains As Long as It Is Deemed Valuable

Be Cautious Against Listening to the Intellect

Interference of the Intellect Decreases By Following the Agna

Samadhi Prevails Upon Following the Agna

Past Knowledge Creates Interference in Following the Agna

One Earns Dada’s Pleasure by Following the Agna

Interference Arises by Acting According to the Mind

Following the Agna is Liberation; Everything Else is Interference

Past Interferences Make One Miss Out on the Agna

How to Settle the Interferences

Only the Firm Resolution to Follow the Agnas Needs to Be Made

Not Interference, Now Settle With Equanimity

Settle Charitra Moha With Equanimity

The Interferences Leave Only By Seeing Them

Surrender the Situations as Offerings in the Ultimate Sacrificial Fire

Bliss Will Overflow When Interference Leaves

Stand at the Door of Gnanpanu

There is no Interference and Its Effects in Shuddha Upayog

Interference Arises Due to Lack of Awareness

Know Even the Interference and Its Effects

There Should Be No Intent of Doing Interference

‘I Do Not Want to Interfere’ Is Gnan, the Fact That It Happens Is the Prakruti

To See File One Is Indeed Purusharth

No Interference, Just See

Do Not Interfere in the Unfolding Karma

Besides Knowing and Seeing, Everything is Interference

Why Interfere in the Filling and Emptying of the Pudgal?

See the Pudgal Without Interfering

If There is no Interference, Then it Will Continue to Purify

There Is No Use in Interfering in What Is Discharge

See the Effects of the Corpse, Then Interference Will Not Persist

Know Even When There is Engrossment

When You Know the Interference, Then You Are Free

Lack of Awareness is Interference

The Nature to Interfere Is Not Yours

See and Know Even the One Creating Interference as Separate

Interference Only Happens When One Leaves His Seat

February 2018 - Dadavani - English

Purusharth Against Interference

EDITORIAL

After attaining Knowledge of the Self, mahatmas have attained the awakened awareness of the Self, yet the filled stock of karma remains to be emptied. This filled stock of karma creates interference and its effects in worldly interactions. As long as interference arises in worldly interactions, the worldly interactions cannot be considered ideal. Therefore, the effort to wipe out interference and its effects still remains for mahatmas.

Now, it is the intellect that creates the interference. It is indeed the excessive ‘wisdom’ of the intellect that is at play behind the interference that takes place all day long. The intellect is useful in carrying out worldly activities, but it is useless for liberation. And it is indeed excess intellect that creates interference. Therefore, the sprouts of such intellect should be chopped off. The intellect that creates interference should be done away with. It is indeed the intellect that makes one emotional, presents baseless fears, and makes one worry.

The intellect will create interference, but You should Know that it is the intellect that is creating interference. So tell the intellect, ‘Do not give me any advice. Now go back to your in-laws’ place.’ Blow the intellect off in this way. The intellect should not have control over You. The intellect is a kind of tool of Yours. If you want to use the intellect, then use it, otherwise tell it, ‘Shut up and sit down, do not interfere.’ As long as you listen to the advice of the intellect and consider it to have value, the interference of the intellect will remain.

As one continues to follow the Five Agnas, the interference of the intellect decreases. But the knowledge of the past creates interference in following the Agnas. Therefore, you should decide, ‘I only want to remain in the Agnas.’ For us, following the Five Agnas is liberation. Everything else is considered interference. Thereafter, there is no problem if the Agnas are followed to a more or less extent, but the attentive awareness of the Five Agnas should remain. Nevertheless, interference and its effects will end up arising in worldly life, so You should Know that. Keep Seeing the interference and its effects. Keep Seeing whatever happens.

If external ‘files’ come to interfere, then settle them with equanimity. And the interferences of File one will leave by simply Seeing them. If You See and Know the interference that is subject to the unfolding of karma, then you are separate. Nonetheless, when one lacks the understanding, when he slips away from his true identity, there is a small interference, which results in an effect. Absolutely revered Dadashri says that if one remains in Gnan and Sees everything through the Vision as the Self, if one does not interfere in anything, then this Gnan is such that liberation can be attained in one lifetime.

The current edition contains a compilation of Dadashri’s speech on what effort as the Self (Purusharth)should be carried out in the face of interference and its effects. This will be useful to mahatmas in the endeavor to attain a state free of interference and its effects.

~ Jai Sat Chit Anand

(Pg.4)

Purusharth Against Interference

Worldly Interaction Without Interference, Through the Agnas

How would you like to make your worldly interaction (vyavahaar)?

Questioner: Absolutely ideal.

Dadashri: What is the point in having ideal worldly interactions (aadarsh vyavahaar) when you become old? Ideal worldly interactions should be there from the beginning of your life.

If there is only one person in this world with ideal worldly interactions, then it is possible for the entire world to change through him.

Questioner: How does ideal worldly interaction arise?

Dadashri: By remaining in the nirvikalp pad (state free from the belief ‘I am Chandubhai’) that you [mahatmas] have received; that will automatically give rise to ideal worldly interactions. After attaining the nirvikalp pad, no interference (dakho) of any kind arises. Nevertheless, if any interference happens for you, then You are not in my Agnas. My five Agnas are such that they will keep you in a state similar to that of Lord Mahavir. My Agnas are not restrictive in worldly interactions; they are such that they will keep you in ideal worldly interactions. This Gnan is such that it can make worldly interactions completely ideal. Who will attain liberation? The one with ideal worldly interactions.

The Lord says just this much, worldly interactions should be such that it does not create a hindrance for anyone. People have believed worldly interaction to be real, but even then they do not know how to carry it out. They have become partial towards worldly interaction, but even then their worldly interaction has not been completely clear. What should worldly interaction be like? It should be ideal. People should be impressed by it. But here, there is interference (dakho) in each and every home. If there is interference taking place, then how can it be called worldly interaction?

Interference and Its Effects Due to the Overwise Intellect

Once I casually asked a very intelligent man, “Do you have conflicts at home?” He responded, “Not just conflict, but I do not even like sitting at home.” I told him, “You are so intelligent, but what have you done, have you pawned your intelligence or what?” An intelligent person wisely finds a solution. If his wife had fought with him yesterday, then he will find a solution so that she will not have

(Pg.5)

reason to attack him again. He will look for a way to stop the attack. He will not counterattack and start a new fight. He will not say, “If you have a go at me again, I will let you have one!” It is a tremendous offense for a man to attack a woman.

On the way to liberation, the intellect is an interference, and in worldly life,the intellect helps you.But that too, the intellect should be one that is within normality. If there is excess intellect, then his wife will say, “All day long he does nothing but quarrel.” So those with excess intellect always keep quarrelling. Therefore, women should not get married to those with excess intellect. It is better to keep him a bachelor.

Now who is considered a truly intelligent person? The one who stops quarrelling. He brings an end to quarrelling where it occurs. That is why ‘we’ have been referred to as shrewd! No matter how difficult a situation ‘we’ come across, ‘we’ clear it off.

His worldly interactions are so elevated that no one finds them bothersome. And someone does find it bothersome, then he will bring out a solution for it. That is anintelligent person.

Intellect is that which does not allow any divisiveness due to difference of opinion (matbhed) to arise. If the milk gets spilled, then he will immediately figure out how it got spilled and come up with a solution using his own past experience. And he will immediately say, “There is no problem that it got spilled, now slowly clean it up and get some more milk and make tea.” He will calmly say this. [Whereas for others,] They lose control even before the milk gets spilled! Interference that happens all day long, that is indeed the excessiveness of the intellect!

Interference Seeps in Through the Sprouts of the Intellect

It is fine that this intellect exists, it is good, but the shoots that have sprouted should be cut off. The shoots are useless, they have sprouted for no purpose, and they do not let you sleep all night long. So the interference of the intellect pushes in. When one person uses his intellect, another person’s will also become active. When one uses his intellect, it continues to have an effect on the other person. So you should do something such that an effect does not arise from you.

Questioner: For that I need your grace (krupa) and my effort (purusharth).

Dadashri: Your effort and ‘we’ will shower ‘our’ grace upon you, and then all the interference of the intellect will stop. But you will have to learn one lesson, ‘whatever happens is correct’. Do this and carry on. So then the intellect will not get exercise and become strong. Otherwise, the intellect will become strong by exercising all night and then it will fight the next day.

Questioner: I have a big habit of looking for justice.

Dadashri: That is precisely why interference arises for you. If you do just this much, then everything will fall into place on its own.

Recognize That Which Is Yours and That Which Is Not Yours

Questioner: The misguided intellect

(Pg.6)

(viparit buddhi) that has infiltrated brings negative thoughts and it also makes me emotional.

Dadashri: Yes, that is why ‘we’ say to it, ‘Have a seat, just have a seat. You don’t give us any advice. In taking your advice, we have wandered around in worldly life. You have not left us at peace even in worldly life.’

Questioner: Why does the interference of the misguided intellect still persist?

Dadashri: It will persist as long as it is in control. Now if from within it says, ‘Let’s go to Dada’s,’ then would you not recognize who said that? Can that be considered to belong to someone else? No. That is your own, but there are others within too. When it gives all kinds of advice, then you should be prepared about who it is that has come. You would recognize whose advice it is, wouldn’t you?

Recognize That the Mischief of the Intellect is Wrong

This Knowledge of the Self, it is not an ordinary thing! It is an extraordinary thing that You have attained! And these intents and views (bhaav) that arise, of the mind, of the intellect, all those intents simply bring on fear. Just once, You should come to understand that these things simply create fear. And as long as the intellect is utilized, it will keep interfering. Does your intellect interfere?

Questioner: Sometimes it arises, it arises in a negative sense.

Dadashri: But you have come to understand that it is the wrong thing, have you not?

Questioner: Yes, I understand that much.

Dadashri: It is the wrong thing, and the mischief it creates is all wrong; you understand all that, don’t you? It is not the right thing, you have understood that, right? Yes, when you understand all this, then there is the effort to move towards the Self. Nevertheless, if there is a lot of force from that side, then it will destabilize you.

How Can the Interfering Intellect Be Recognized?

Questioner: My problem is of a different kind. The intellect shows me one thing, like the business is incurring some problems, so do this or else this will happen. So at that time I have two alternatives. Either I try to do what the intellect shows me or I consider it as interference of the intellect and ignore it. So how would I know whether this is interference or it is right?

Dadashri: You should decide, ‘I want to rest from twelve to two. I will come out after taking a rest.’ So whenever the intellect arises before two o’clock, if it arises at one o’clock, then would you not recognize that it is interfering unnecessarily? You had decided on a time and it came in in the middle; that is wrong intellect.

Then if it comes after two o’clock, then you should ask, ‘Are you right or wrong? If you are right, then show me some benefits.’ It is right if it shows

(Pg.7)

benefits and if it needlessly bickers, then it is wrong. It will bother you unnecessarily. And the work is going to get done anyway, it is certainly going to get done on time. Everything is indeed going to get done. You will not have to go and summon it. It will come on its own. Even if you have a quarrel with it, it will drag its feet and come, but it will not refrain from coming. This is because nothing gets done without putting a signature on it!

Intellect Decreases Only When the Light of Knowledge Increases

The intellect will decrease only when the light of Knowledge (Gnanprakash) increases. Otherwise, if the light of Knowledge is not present on one side, then the intellect will not decrease.

Questioner: When the light of Knowledge is present, the intellect is needed, isn’t it?

Dadashri: No, it is such that everything can be recognized in the light of Knowledge. It is possible to see everything clearly with this light. In whatever worldly life you have to carry out, that which has come into evidence, this light will not work. In that, the other light is definitely there with it. The light of the intellect, a dim light is always there with it in all activity. The intellect that is essential remains even for me. Nonessential intellect is that which shows, ‘This will happen to you’ and ‘That will happen to you’; it keeps showing negative things, it creates interference. Does it not make you emotional? That is the intellect I am telling you to decrease. The other intellect is certainly there, it will naturally arise on its own. It will remain along with it, the dim light will always be there! You do not need full light there, in order to run worldly life.

Limit of the Use of the Intellect

‘We’ were sitting at Dadar station at seven o’clock in the morning when they turned off all the lights all at once. So one man with a lot of intellect asks, “Why did they do this?” “The light of the rising sun is present, so what is the need for these lights?” What ‘we’ are saying is, after attaining this full light [of the Self], turn off the light of the intellect! Just as these people are so alert about electricity being wasted, energy is being wasted by using the intellect in the presence of Your light, in the presence of the main energy, and if that light does not get used, then the main energy will increase.

Questioner: The light of the intellect will always remain, will it not?

Dadashri: Yes, the intellect will get work done when it is needed, but there is no need to keep its button pressed down. It gets turned on automatically, but the button should not remain turned on. The intellect shows where the benefits of worldly life lie. It is indeed the intellect that gets used in any worldly activity, whereas ‘I am pure Soul’ is use of Gnan.

The restrain of the intellect should not exist over you. The intellect is a kind of tool of Yours. You can use it if you want to, otherwise you should tell it, ‘Shut up and sit down, do not interfere.’ Instead, it is usually in control. The intellect will say, ‘A loss was incurred,’ but why should you believe it? The intellect considers

(Pg.8)

loss in worldly life as loss, whereas our Gnan considers loss in worldly life as a gain. That will be apparent if You see it through Gnan.

The Interference of the Intellect Remains Even After Gnan

Questioner: Until now, we have done everything through the intellect, and so illusory attachment has become tied to it, that only this is correct, the intellect is indeed correct.

Dadashri: Is that so? But no one will ever believe that the intellect is wrong! Nobody will believe that. The [karmic] stock that is stuck, as long as it is not removed, until then, it would indeed be the intellect that removes it, wouldn’t it! It is removed through the intellect and then again, You should remove it through Gnan.

Questioner: So if the intellect becomes samyak (right), then it will continue removing it, will it not?

Dadashri: Right intellect is for acquiring anew. What this old intellect shows is, say for example someone spills milk, then this old intellect will show you that a loss has been incurred. So you say, “You should have been more careful.” Now this is what the intellect says at that time, and what does our Gnan say? ‘There is no need to do that.’ So it is when the intellect plays its role that it becomes cleared.

Questioner: So this intellect will not refrain from playing its role, will it?

Dadashri: It will play its role!

Questioner: So Dada, it is only when we clear it by using Gnan against it that it will be removed without playing its role?

Dadashri: No, no, it will definitely play its role!

Questioner: Does the intellect interfere even after Gnan comes into result?

Dadashri: It will interfere. On one hand, Gnan clears it. The intellect interferes, and whatever gets cleared is ours. The interference that had been done dissipates. Theintellect will keep interfering as long as it is in operation. The intellect will not refrain from interfering!

Get Rid of the Interfering Intellect

Does your intellect interfere?

Questioner: Yes, a lot of interference of the intellect remains, such as, ‘This will happen, that will happen.’ Moreover, this interference of the intellect carries on all day long.

Dadashri: Yes. You should say, ‘What’s going to happen? The factory is running on its own, no loss is being incurred. All my brothers are alive and kicking, so what’s going to happen? Nothing is going to happen.’

Questioner: That is correct, Dada, yet the intellect creates its own thing. It makes a mountain out of a molehill.

Dadashri: Yes, it will do that so what should we do? Should we befriend it?

Questioner: We should do away with it.

(Pg.9)

Dadashri: Yes, you should do away with it. A young man like you!

When depressed, one will think, ‘What will happen? What will happen?’ What is going to happen? The world has remained as it always has. What is going to happen? We remain alive. If a steamer arrives all the way from England to here in good shape, yet along the way it rocks three times, then one will worry, ‘What will happen? What will happen?’ Hey mortal one! It will come to pass soon enough! Why don’t you eat and drink peacefully and worship God. Will the steamer sink or not? Now who is it that teaches, ‘What will happen, what will happen, what will happen?’ It is the intellect that creates agitation; the intellect torments you. ‘What will happen? What will happen?’ Hey, what is going to happen? It will either sink or it will float; one or the other will take place. So just be quiet and worship God. Of those two things, can a third thing happen?

Recognize the Intellect that Creates Interference

Questioner: Nowadays, it is indeed the intellect that torments us, is it not? It is indeed what creates interference, isn’t it?

Dadashri: Yes, it is the intellect that creates interference. But you should recognize the intellect, you should tell it, ‘Madam Intellect, please go now. How long are you going to stay here at your parent’s home? Go to your in-laws’. I will send you some money every twelve months.’ She will go if you send her off in a proper manner, won’t she? You do not need call her over. You are the one who raised her, so she will certainly listen to you, won’t she? Are you not the one who raised her? Actually, the intellect will keep on interfering on its own as long as it exists!

Questioner: But things get spoiled by the interference, don’t they?

Dadashri: You should keep Seeing what is being spoiled. It can create whatever interference it wants to. What should You do? Should You See it or should you also become involved with it? You should keep Seeing it.

Know the Interference Effects of the Intellect

Questioner: I understand what Dada is saying, but then the intellect conjures up such a big storm that…

Dadashri: If the intellect conjures up a storm, then You should ‘Know’ that it is conjuring a storm!

Questioner: But I am not able to remain in the state of Knowing; I slip from there.

Dadashri: That slipping, you are not actually slipping; it just appears that way.

Questioner: That maybe so, but I am not able to remain as you do.

Dadashri: The intellect may create interference, but You should know the intellect, that this is the interference of the intellect. Would you not recognize that? If some girl comes into our house; say there is a boy and a girl, then would you not be able to recognize that the girl is creating interference? You should recognize the

(Pg.10)

interference, nothing else. Would you not know whose interference it is?

Questioner: I realize it later on.

Dadashri: You realize it later on and that is why nothing happens. When You Know the interference as interference, then there is no problem.

Listening to the Advice of the Intellect Creates Interference and Its Effects

Questioner: The intellect still interferes so what should I do?

Dadashri: When the intellect interferes on this side, then you should move your attention away from there. If you come across a person you don’t like as you are walking along, then don’t you turn your face away? In the same way, you should move away from the one that interferes in Your affairs. Who does the interfering? The intellect! It is the nature of the intellect to not let you break free from worldly life.

Questioner: When will the intellect come to an end?

Dadashri: If You don’t pay too much attention to it, if you keep Your vision turned away from it, then it will get the message. It will come to an end on its own. And it will continue to interfere as long as you give it a lot of respect, you accept what it says, you listen to its advice.

The Interference of the Intellect Remains As Long as It Is Deemed Valuable

Questioner: When there is interference of the intellect, I am aware that, ‘This intellect has interfered.’ Who lets me know that? Is it the pure Soul or Pragnya shakti (direct light of the Self) that lets me know that?

Dadashri: The pure Soul does not do any work at all. It is indeed Pragnya shakti that shows You. Rather than the pure Soul, it is indeed Pragnya shakti that does the work as its representative, and it informs You of everything. Moreover, if You are going away from the Self, it [Pragnya] brings You back towards the Self. The intellect is considered agnya (ignorance). Agnya’s work is to ensure that You do not go to moksha, so it keeps pulling you back right here. The duel is between agnya and Pragnya, and if You blend with agnya then that is it, agnya’s work is done, it will become happy. So then Pragnya gets tired. What can be done when the main ‘boss’ blends in [with agnya]!

Questioner: Dada, for how long will the intellect interfere in this way?

Dadashri: For as long as it is deemed to be valuable. Say there is a crazy man living in the neighborhood who comes around cursing you a few times every day. So when he comes around to curse you, you know that the crazy man has come. So you would just continue to drink your tea while he continues to curse. Similarly, let the intellect come and leave; You should remain in Your state [as the Self]. Everything else that exists is in fact puran-galan (filling in-emptying out). It will remain separate even if You do not say anything, and it will not refrain from coming even if You say anything.

(Pg.11)

Be Cautious Against Listening to the Intellect

Questioner: Are you saying that I should not listen to the intellect when it is interfering?

Dadashri: It is very good if You do not listen to it, but you will not refrain from listening to it. And even if ‘we’ tell you to not listen to her, you will not refrain from doing so, will you! There is no need for the intellect if You want to go to moksha. The intellect is necessary if you want to wander around in worldly life. If one has not read all such things and the paper is blank, then for him it will be, ‘This is Chandubhai and this is I,’ that is all, that is good. So all this is discharge!

Questioner: Dada, despite knowing that this intellect is interfering, if we listen to her, what can we consider as having happened in this case?

Dadashri: Actually, you still have interest in listening to what the intellectsays, but even then Pragnya shakti will definitely pull You to that side [of the Self].

Questioner: I recognize that the intellect is interfering yet I continue to listen to the intellect; is that not considered obstinacy?

Dadashri: There is nothing wrong if you keep listening to her but you do not put it into use. Otherwise, You should just keep Seeing what the intellect keeps doing! There is no problem if You remain in Your nature [as the Self]. You have a lot of intellect, but there will not be any problem because You have attained Dada’s grace.

Questioner: Dada, my intellect is very active but then I pacify it a little. I do not listen to her anymore.

Dadashri: You should not let it affect you. It was only when my intellect departed that all the problems came to an end! Independent, no one can interfere at all thereafter!

Interference of the Intellect Decreases By Following the Agna

Questioner: The intellect keeps arising even after attaining this Gnan. Now the intellect should not arise in the presence of Gnan, and where there is intellect there is no Gnan. So why does that keep happening?

Dadashri: No, but all this that keeps happening is due to your old habits; that is why the intellect is being misused. That is why ‘we’ have given you the Agnas (five directives that preserve the awareness as the Self in Akram Vignan)! If you remain in the Agnas, then the intellect will not be used. But that old habit you have from the past does not budge. So it is due to that habit that it appears this way. It will take a few years for that habit to go away and if the intellect is done away with, then even this discharging ego will also get finished off.

Questioner: As long as the discharging ego exists, the phases of the intellect are bound to arise, aren’t they?

Dadashri: Of course they will arise! But when that discharging ego arrives at a certain stage, then the intellect will be considered as good as gone. So while it is in this higher stage, it will continue to

(Pg.12)

decrease, then it will be settled, then you will not feel, ‘There is intellect within me.’

Questioner: So as I remain more in the Agnas, the interference decreases?

Dadashri: Then it will not interfere. Forget the intellect! Become the pure Soul; I am pure Soul! The Agnas are the religion and the Agnas are the penance. But it will not refrain from interfering! The bad habit has formed since time immemorial.

This interference is due to the intellect. For how long is there a need for the intellect? For as long as Gnan has not been attained. There is no need for the intellect after Gnan has been attained. The intellect always infiltrates on its own. It is the intellect that does not let the poor man live in peace.

Samadhi Prevails Upon Following the Agna

After attaining Gnan, one should remain in the Five Agnas of the Gnani Purush. It is such that if one follows the Five Agnas, constant samadhi (blissful state that comes about when one becomes free from mental, physical and externally induced suffering) will prevail. ‘We’ will write out a bond guaranteeing this. Are you able to follow the Agnas to an extent?

Questioner: I am able to.

Dadashri: You will be blessed if You follow all of them. How much do you follow them?

Questioner: I follow them whenever I remember to do so, Dada.

Dadashri: When you remember it? Follow the Five Agnas with fervor. You are still going to live for a bit longer, why don’t you do something, then what will you do when you are no longer living? Can you rely on the body? Who will save you? This Gnan will go away and so will your moksha if You cannot follow the Five Agnas in the midst of this chaos. Nothing will be attained without following the Agnas. Is this some kind of a falsehood? This is Science (Vignan)!

For the past seven years, a man has been running his household. He has been ploughing his fields, he tends to his cows and buffalos. He just got his daughter married. He invited all the mahatmas to the wedding. He tells me, “I have not experienced the lack of samadhi for even a minute over the past seven years, due to Dada’s Gnan. Even when there is a drought, I have not experienced the lack of samadhi. Even when there is plentiful rain, I have not experienced the lack of samadhi.” When asked the reason behind this, he responds, “It is due to the Five Agnas Dada has given. There is no interfering to be done, not even in name. I want to remain only in the Five Agnas. I don’t understand anything else. This science is beautiful!”

If one remains in the Agnas, then all of worldly life continues to unwind, your sons will get married, your daughters will get married. If you remain in the Agnas, then everything keeps happening on its own, it keeps happening naturally.

On the contrary, one interferes by sticking his finger in the yogurt. You tell him to sleep all night long, “Do not go to check on the yogurt.” Yet he wakes up at two in the morning and says, “Let me

(Pg.13)

take a look, has it formed a little or not?” Then in the morning he discovers that it has not thickened. Otherwise, this is a science! It gives instant results! Remain only in the Agnas.

Past Knowledge Creates Interference in Following the Agna

So you should understand it methodically. What will happen when one tries to solve his complex entanglement by himself? Otherwise, if he just remains in the Agnas of the Gnani Purush, then samadhi will prevail right now. But he cannot remain in the Agnas, can he! How can he remain in the Agnas? His past knowledge entangles him! If the past knowledge has been fractured, then there will be no interference.

The Agnas that ‘we’ have given, if one remains in those Agnas, then it is such that samadhi will continuously prevail. Those Agnas are not difficult either. Do there appear to be any contradictions in them? Here, whoever has a clean slate will have a faster solution. Instead, people kept studying books [scriptures]. One’s state would have been much higher had he not read those books. Instead, one keeps hitting up the books.

So many people here have been given Gnan; they constantly remain in Samadhi. This is because there is no interference, is there! One has realized, ‘All that I used to believe has turned out to be wrong based on what Dada says. So let’s leave all that talk aside.’ Here, the one who does not understand anything will come across a solution faster.

If you do not understand, then the greatest refuge is to maintain, ‘Whatever happens to Dada, may the same happen for me.’ Do as Dada says. If he says, “Get up,” then you should get up. If he says, “Don’t get married,” then say, “I will not get married.” If he says, “Marry two women,” then say, “I will marry two women.” There should be no interference there by saying, “Sir, the scriptures have said no and you are telling me to marry two?” If you do so, then you become unfit for moksha.

There should be no comparison between the scriptures and the Gnani’s Agna. The Gnani is superior to the scriptures. The Gnani is superior to even Gnan. You should do in accordance with whatever Agna he gives.

One Earns Dada’s Pleasure by Following the Agna

However much one follows ‘our’ Agnas, he certainly earns that much of ‘our’ pleasure (rajipo).

If you have an ardent desire to remain only in the Gnani’s Agna, then through his grace (krupa) you will be able to do so. When one follows the Agnas, then the elation of the Agnas remains.

Questioner: One can remain in the Agna through Your grace, and one earns grace by remaining in the Agna. So which of these is true?

Dadashri: If there is grace, then one can follow the Agna, and if one is able to follow the Agna, then grace increases.

Questioner: What comes first?

Dadashri: Pleasing the Gnani comes first.

(Pg.14)

Questioner: Does that happen through the Five Agnas?

Dadashri: It definitely happens through the Five Agnas. Otherwise, rajipo is earned by staying close to him, by serving (seva) him.

You remain within ‘our’ Agnas, so I am very pleased. If one does not remain in the Agnas, then he will end up creating interference. There is no greater religion in the world than to keep the Gnani Purush happy. And it is entirely in your hands to earn ‘our’ pleasure. As You progress along by remaining in ‘our’ Agnas, ‘our’ pleasure towards You will increase.

Interference Arises by Acting According to the Mind

Questioner: I have made the firm resolution to stay close to Dada and get My work done, to remain in the Five Agnas, yet I fall short in that; what should I do about that?

Dadashri: Just look, what do you mean by ‘what should I do’? The mind may say, ‘Do this.’ Then You should realize, ‘This is contrary to my goal, Dadaji’s grace will decrease.’ So You should tell the mind, ‘No, this is to be done like this, according to the goal.’ After knowing how Dadaji’s grace is bestowed, You should make the arrangements accordingly.

Therefore, it is due to going according to what the mind says that all this trouble arises. I have told this man for a long time. I keep giving this understanding. So You should not go according to what the mind says, You should go only according to Your goal. Otherwise, there is no telling which ‘town’ you will end up in and which ‘town’ you were headed for! To act in accordance with Your goal, that is indeed Purusharth (progress as the Self)! All these people in foreign countries indeed go according to the mind! What is the mind of these foreigners like? Theirs is straightforward and the mind of Indians is filled with interference; it is completely wayward! Therefore, you should become the master of your mind. Your mind should be such that it does according to what You say.

Questioner: When this discussion takes place, then the mind goes according to that for fifteen to twenty days. Then something happens and it goes back to how it was.

Dadashri: It goes back, but it is the mind that goes back, why should You turn back?You are as You were!

Questioner: Sometimes even the Agnas become natural (sahaj).

Dadashri: Gradually they will all become natural. They happen naturally for the one who wants to follow by them. Meaning one’s own mind becomes woven in that manner. The one who wants to follow them and has a firm resolution will have no difficulty. This is the most elevated, most wonderful Science (Vignan) and samadhi always remains. Samadhi does not depart even when someone hurls insults, samadhi does not depart even when a loss is incurred, samadhi does not depart even when the house is on fire.

Questioner: Does Pragnya shakti prosper to such an extent that all the Agnas become woven within?

(Pg.15)

Dadashri: The Agnas become woven. Pragnya shakti will indeed grab hold of them. These Five Agnas, these five fundamental sentences are the essence of all the scriptures of the world!

Following the Agna is Liberation; Everything Else is Interference

For us, remaining in the Five Agnas is moksha; everything else is considered interference. Then whether You remain in the Agnas to a greater or a lesser extent is immaterial, but the awareness (laksha) of the Five Agnas should remain. Just as when a person is driving on the road, it is indeed in his awareness (laksha) of what the traffic rules are! Otherwise he will have a collision. That collision is visible, but this other collision is not visible, is it? And it is subject to total destruction! People do not realize this.

Questioner: What is the gauge to measure whether I missed out on following the Agna?

Dadashri: The suffocation that arises within is payback for missing out on following the Agna. Constant samadhi remains for those who follow the Agnas. One experiences samadhi as long as he follows the Agna. There are many on our path that follow the Agna very well and remain in samadhi. This is because this path is straightforward and one of equanimity. It is natural! And if this path is not found to be agreeable, then then how is that other path going to be agreeable? Therefore, attention should never be paid to the commotion of the mind. Put aside all other commotion and simply maintain the relationship of Gnata-gneya (Gnata is the Self as the Knower and gneya is that which is being known). The mind is carrying out its function; what is the need to interfere in that? This path is such that one can constantly remain in the Agnas, in samadhi. It is not difficult at all. You are free to eat mangoes and everything else.

Past Interferences Make One Miss Out on the Agna

Questioner: The Agnas are not difficult, I do make the attempt to follow them yet I often feel that I am not able to remain in them.

Dadashri: The inability to remain in the Agnas is not Your desire at all. You are not able to remain in them, therefore someone else’s interference is there. Now, on the one hand I am telling You that there is no one in this world that interferes in your affairs, but that which you had signed off on in the past, it is that which is creating the uproar and interference. Did you or did you not sign off on these before attaining Gnan?

Questioner: Yes.

Dadashri: So these are interferences that you yourself had created and they are indeed the ones creating the interference. That interference should definitely come to an end.

All of you are ready to do Purusharth. I know that You are capable of doing Purusharth. Yet what is the reason that Purusharth does not happen? The things you had signed off on before, the contracts that had been created, when those contracts become outstanding, they show up at your

(Pg.16)

doorstep in the morning. You say, “Hey! Why did you come now? I am dwelling in the midst of joy.” It will respond, “No, settle our account, then dwell in joy.”

How to Settle the Interferences

Questioner: There are many such accounts that need to be settled; it will take a long time.

Dadashri: No, it is not necessary that it will take long. There is a rule for that. However many mangoes this mango tree has; how many are there? If you try to count them, there will be no end to it. But as soon as the month of Ashadha (name of a month in the Vikram Samvat Indian calendar) arrives, you will not see any mangoes on the tree. So do not become startled. Do not become startled upon seeing these mangoes, ‘When will they be ready to be picked and when will I count them and when will they be done away with!’ Do not calculate anything. There is a timing for it. So do not become startled in those matters.

The creditors will come only at that time. At that time, tell them, ‘Come on in, now I have met Dada. Now I want to settle all my contracts. Collect your payment. Come and get it them all. Why have only four of you come? I will make payments until midnight, but come and collect it now.’ You have no choice but to make the payment. Any work that you have no choice but to do will interfere, so you should settle that first.

If someone tells you, ‘Come and eat, you are hungry, are you not?’ Then tell him, ‘Let me settle with this one that is interfering, then I will sit down to eat in peace.’ So once the interference is gone, Purusharth will genuinely happen.

I am showing You the same way through which my interferences have been eradicated. I have Seen all the interferences that have now disappeared for ‘me’. So this is the path I am showing You. And you do not see mangoes on the mango tree in the month of Ashadha, do you?

Questioner: No.

Dadashri: Why? There were so many, were there not? Oh, you could see them until the month of Vaishakh, they will not remain on the tree thereafter. Once the time comes, they will not remain on the tree. They do not have the pain of falling on the ground, but none of them will stay up there. If there is no one to eat them, the birds will, but their end will come.Therefore, do not become distressed about any interference. On the contrary, when the time comes to give the payment then say, ‘Come, quickly take your payment. Come on in.’ You have to fulfill the agreement you made, do you not? You complain, ‘This is what I got. My mother-in-law is harassing me.’ Oh, you have such a contract with your mother-in-law, so fulfill it! Is it the mother-in-law that is harassing you? This is nothing but a contract that you had made. Whatever agreement you had made, you will have to fulfill it, will you not?

Questioner: Yes.

Dadashri: Therefore, these are all ‘contractual’ goods; Your pure applied awareness(shuddha upayog)does not leave in that. As it gets settled with equanimity, saiyam (a state in which

(Pg.17)

separation is maintained even in the midst of anger-pride-deceit-greed and attachment-abhorrence expressed within the relative self) increases. Saiyam is indeed referred to as Purusharth. And as saiyam increases, the settlement also happens quickly. The quicker the settlement takes place, saiyam increases. It all keeps happening automatically and reaches absolute Knowledge (keval Gnan).

Only the Firm Resolution to Follow the Agnas Needs to Be Made

‘You’ do not have to do anything. ‘You’ just have to decide, ‘I want to follow Dada’s Agnas.’ And even then, you are not to worry if you are not able to follow them. Maintain the firm resolve that You want to follow the Agnas. Then You should follow the Agnas. You say, “Dada, my mother-in-law scolds me.” So before you even see your mother-in-law, you should decide in your mind, ‘A file has come.’ So through Dada’s Agna, make the decision that ‘I want to settle this with equanimity.’And then when you are not able to settle it with equanimity, then you are not responsible for that. You are entitled to follow the Agnas.

You are entitled to your own firm resolution, you are not entitled to the actions. What are You entitled to? ‘You’ should have the firm resolve that, ‘I definitely want to follow the Agnas.’Then if you cannot follow them and you end up slapping someone, then you do not have to be remorseful about it. If you end up slapping someone, then come to me the next day and ask me what you should do about it. Then I will show you, ‘Do pratikraman. You did atikraman (aggression through thought, speech, or action) so do pratikraman.’ Such a straightforward, simple, smooth path just needs to be understood. This is a very easy path.

Not Interference, Now Settle With Equanimity

Dada has given Gnan, now nothing of Yours is left! Rather, you have surrendered the mind-speech-body that you had to Dada, you have surrendered three whole bundles. If you think about it, now that you have surrendered them to Dada, You cannot use them without asking him. However ‘we’ have given you permission saying, “Settle the files.”

These are all indeed files. The food that comes before you is also a file, this tea that comes before you is also a file. You should settle with them with equanimity. ‘I do not drink tea, I do not do this and I do not do that…’; there should be none of that. If you do not drink tea, then just put the tea aside without bringing it to anyone’s attention. Why must you make a big deal out of it? “I don’t drink tea!” he will say. People create such a big fuss, don’t they? They create interference.

Settle Charitra Moha With Equanimity

This is a wonderful path! So You should get your work done quickly by pursuing it intensely. Now whatever other desires arise within should be weakened in whatever way possible and that is all charitra moha (discharging illusory attachment after new charging has stopped). Desire is not true illusory attachment (moha); it is charitra moha. Even the Lord [Mahavir] had charitra

(Pg.18)

moha. From the time He left home until the time He attained absolute Knowledge (keval Gnan); it was all charitra moha. If you are eating sweets, then I will not come to scold you. I know that it is Your charitra moha and that You are settling it. ‘You’ should settle it with equanimity in such a way that it does not come back again. Whatever that has come right now is scientific circumstantial evidence (vyavasthit); if it has not come then that too is vyavasthit. If the sweet bread is not cooked properly, that too is vyavasthit; if it is well-cooked, then that too is vyavasthit. Everything is vyavasthit, isn’t it?

Here when ‘we’ settle the charitra moha with equanimity; that is liberation (mukti). There is nothing else to it. Never before has one even heard of such an easy path to liberation; that is how easy and straightforward this path is. Nothing is to be renounced. There is construction-deconstruction, no interference, no reaction to interference.

The Interferences Leave Only By Seeing Them

Questioner: We settle with equanimity all the other files, but can you explain in detail how to settle with equanimity with file number one. Because all the interferences are from only file number one.

Dadashri: Those interferences will leave only by Seeing them, only by Seeing the file. Whether he is awkward or straightforward, there is no hassle with the file. They will go away only by Seeing them. If the other person is making a claim, then you will have to do pratikraman. Whereas here, there is no one to make a claim! So they will go away by simply Seeing them. If bad thoughts are arising in the mind, if they are a little negative, if the intellect is becoming negative, keep Seeing all that. There is no problem with whatever activity they are doing, just keep Seeing it. This is the most straightforward path to liberation; it is the easiest [path to] liberation.

Questioner: Does to See mean to not be in agreement with him?

Dadashri: There is no agreement with him in that at all. Just keep Seeing!

Now after attaining Gnan, settle files with equanimity. Just as we were discussing those batteries, the mind-speech-body are also simply three batteries. When those batteries get used up on their own, then they will come to an end. You are to settle this with equanimity, so it will continue to clear. It will continue to become clear as you settle with equanimity. And as it becomes clear, when its power finishes, then You are free and it is free too.

Surrender the Situations as Offerings in the Ultimate Sacrificial Fire

To settlewith equanimity means to give a sacrificial offering of the situation (avastha). This is the ultimate mahayagna (sacrificial ritual).

This Gnan of ours is such that when a thought arises within, when a situation arises, then it is immediately given up as a sacrificial offering. This is because one will indeed seek out the one responsible for his own situation. Each situation is given up as a sacrificial offering, this is

(Pg.19)

the ultimate spiritual yagna (traditionally, a Hindu ritual in which offerings are poured into a sacred fire). To offer it to the fire means that the fire will burn it completely. Interference takes place because one happily and willingly becomes tanmayakar (engrossed) in the state; this creates new designs and sows new seeds.

If you surrender the situations of the mind, speech, and body into the great ‘fire’ while remaining constantly aware, then the phases that are stuck to the Self will begin to separate and one will become the absolute Self (Parmatma swaroop) to that extent.

Bliss Will Overflow When Interference Leaves

When all these files decrease, then the bliss (anand) will not be containable. The bliss will overflow and even the neighbors will benefit. This is because anything that overflows will come out, and when it comes out, it is helpful to others. So even the neighbor will benefit. At present, bliss is not felt even in settling the files. All these interferences do not allow you to taste the bliss.

Stand at the Door of Gnanpanu

So You should keep Seeing what is unfolding, but how so? Stand at the door of Gnanpanu (the function of Knowing). What our people refer to as Pragnya (liberating energy of the Self). What is Pragnya? It is the door to Gnanpanu; it shows the separation that, ‘This is ‘home’ (swa; the Self) and this is ‘foreign’ (par; relative; the non-Self).’ So when you embark into the foreign, it will tell you, ‘You are heading into the foreign!’ So then you turn back around and do pratikraman that you will not do it again. So You do eventually turn around. Does Pragnya caution you or not that, ‘You are heading into the foreign’?

Questioner: It does caution.

Dadashri: Yes, then that is all. It cautions you and you turn back; the solution will come about by doing so. The applied awareness (upayog) that goes into the ‘foreign’; it propels it back into the Self. This is what is to be done.‘You’ do not have to go after any other thing!

So if our Gnan stands at the doorstep of Gnanpanu, then that Gnan will keep doing all the work. It will caution you if you drift into some other application, whereas here, with the Gnani Purush, Your awareness does not go into anything else. Chandubhai [reader should insert his/her name here] does Chandhubhai’s work, and You do Your work, both keep on doing their respective work. Here, it remains separate on its own. It does not go into any other applied awareness. You do not have to maintain pure applied awareness as the Self (shuddha upayog); only shuddha upayog remains here. From the Gnani Purush, the benefit of association with the Self (satsang) is gained. That is why one remains only in shuddha upayog. It will not allow interference to happen at all!

There is no Interference and Its Effects in Shuddha Upayog

Questioner: If I am sitting here in Your presence and in my mind I ask, ‘Dada, give me the energy to continuously follow the Five Agnas,’ can that be considered shuddha upayog?

(Pg.20)

Dadashri: It is close to shuddha upayog. That is a true means towards shuddha upayog. Shuddha upayog is only pure! What energies do you keep asking for? It is considered a means for shuddha upayog. You can go towards shuddha upayog through this means. Shuddha upayog is absolute, only pure. There is no asking for anything! There is nothing to renounce; there is nothing to be given up either. There is no interference and its resulting effects, just shuddha upayog. The entire world has hurtful and helpful awareness (shubha-ashubha upayog), whereas this is pure applied awareness. There is no interference of any kind if there is shuddha upayog. There is not even the slightest of interference. It encompasses everything. Other sentences of ‘ours’ are for enhancing shuddha upayog.

Interference Arises Due to Lack of Awareness

Our Gnan is such that when someone accuses you of stealing his watch, you will respond, “Sir, whatever you think is correct.” You should become the Self and then respond. Then, if at that moment you become Chandubhai, then the Self that has been given to you will go away. So this is a problem in our Akram Vignan.

Questioner: Despite having this problem, the awareness continues to develop during that time. This is a path to develop awareness.

Dadashri: Yes, the awareness will increase. The awareness will increase to great heights. But given the state of things, if the slightest interference exists right now, then one immediately accepts it. ‘When did I steal?’ Hey, why are you defending him [Chandubhai]? Why are you defending something that is not Yours? There is no need for You to defend that which is not about You at all. It is Your mistake to accept it as Yours, is it not? Later, he realizes, ‘I made a mistake.’ The realization comes later on, but at least that much awareness exists.

Even this Gnan that has been given holds tremendous awareness, but one deliberately creates interference. That is why the awareness decreases. Nothing will touch You at all if You have the awareness.

Know Even the Interference and Its Effects

Questioner: Despite following Dada’s Agnas well, dakho-dakhal (interference and its resulting effects) end up happening in worldly life, so what is the reason for this?

Dadashri: It ends up happening, You should Know that. That which is to be Known is a gneya. Everything that happens in worldly life is to be Known, and You are the Knower (Gnata). It is that which is to be Seen (drashya) and You are the Seer(Drashta). You are to remain in Your intrinsic nature.

Questioner: I know that I am pure Soul (Shuddhatma), but what should I do if a file of mine does not have this Gnan and engages in dakho-dakhal?

Dadashri: Keep Seeing the dakho-dakhal. Keep Seeing whatever happens. Keep Seeing that which you have to bear. It is all your account of karma. There is no interference of anyone else.

(Pg.21)

There Should Be No Intent of Doing Interference

Questioner: Now if there is a four-year-old child at home and he is doing something wrong, then I feel that this child has a lack of understanding, so let me warn or scold him. I end up doing that, I have to do that, because it is my child. So is that all right or what should I do in such a situation?

Dadashri: Yes, whatever he does, You have to keep Seeing it.

Questioner: Should I not tell him anything?

Dadashri: Even if Chandubhai [File number one] is scolding the child or hitting him, You should keep Seeing that, but when he hits him excessively, then You should tell him, ‘Do not hit him like this.’

Questioner: Now, there is no hitting. But it’s just that ‘I’ Know that it is indeed Chandubhai that is doing it, but the interference that was done in Chandubhai’s actions, is that proper or not?

Dadashri: You should do everything. Interfere, warn him, do everything. There should not be the intent of interfering, you should See what unfolds. The doership behind interfering no longer remains at all. The very state of doership no longer remains. Keep Seeing what unfolds. When he ends up interfering, See that, and when he does something good; See that too!

Questioner: From within I feel that I want to remain the Knower-Seer, I do not want to do anything, and externally it ends up happening that I slap him.

Dadashri: ‘See’ what Chandubhai is doing. Then You should say, ‘Chandubhai, why are you doing this? Do pratikraman for this.’

Questioner: If I say this, will it reach him?

Dadashri: Everything reaches. Just give him a cautionary hint. It’s not as if Chandubhai was illiterate! He knew everything, but it happened under the control of the prakruti (non-Self complex).

‘I Do Not Want to Interfere’ Is Gnan, the Fact That It Happens Is the Prakruti

Questioner: Whenever this happens, every time the thought arises from within that, ‘This is wrong, why does this happen?’

Dadashri: You should not get involved in the trouble of ‘this is wrong’ and ‘this is right.’ Chandubhai will deal with it on his own. ‘You’ should keep Seeing what Chandubhai is doing. Discharge means that whatever stock had been filled is emptying; it is being discharged. Therefore, today’s knowledge is saying, ‘I do not want to interfere.’ The interference that happens is due to the past [knowledge effects], or else you end up taking his [Chandubhai’s] side. The friction carries on between the two. It continues to carry on! But today’s Gnan tells You, ‘I do not want to interfere.’ But that is the part of the Self, and the interference that happens is indeed done by Chandubhai.

Questioner: So do ‘I’ have to shake it off in this way, that ‘I’ do not have anything to do with it all?

(Pg.22)

Dadashri: ‘You’ have nothing to do with it and You should remain as the Knower-Seer of that. If he creates too many problems for someone and if someone gets hurt, then You should say, ‘Why are you doing these things for no reason? Now how many days do you want to remain bound?’ ‘You’ should just say such things and release Yourself. That too, You should not become irritated with him. What is the point is getting irritated with him? What are You looking for in the prakruti;what are you looking for in that which has been charged by pumping life force(chetan) into it? And if he ends up doing something, then what can be achieved by scolding him?

Questioner: So the feeling remains within that I do not want to interfere. The knowledge of today shows that and…

Dadashri: The knowledge of today says, ‘I do not want to interfere.’Gnan means the Self, the Self that has been attained. To not want to interfere; that is Gnan. The interference that happens is prakruti, it is ignorance (agnan). The Self only Sees the interference that arises, that is it. One has entered the Knower-Seer state (Gnata-Drashta bhaav). If the mistake that has happened is Known, then that is the Self. To See and Know one’s own mistake, that is the Self. The interference is the fault, and if You See it, then the mistake makes its way out and leaves. The mistake will not leave without being Seen, without being Known. It should be recognized. If these mistakes of mine are not Seen, then what other solution is there to overcome them? (Deetha nahi nijdosh to tariye kaun upaya?) ‘You’ can See all the faults, can’t You?

Questioner: I can See them.

Dadashri: ‘You’ can See all of them, can’t You? That itself is called Vignan (Science). There is no [other] science that shows one’s own mistakes.

Questioner: Yes. This shows the subtlest of faults.

Dadashri: The subtlest of [faults], the smallest of [faults]. It even starts up pratikraman (apology coupled with remorse) within!

To See File One Is Indeed Purusharth

Questioner: Dada, the interference that ends up happening must be subject to scientific circumstantial evidence (vyavasthit), mustn’t it?

Dadashri: That which has happened, that part is dependent on vyavasthit, but that which is going to happen is not dependent on vyavasthit. Do not worry about what has already happened. Do pratikraman for the wrongdoing that has happened, and tell the one who did it, ‘Do pratikraman.’ Chandubhai did it, so tell Chandubhai, ‘You do pratikraman.’

Questioner: If I leave it in the control of vyavasthit, then what Purusharth (to progress as the Self) do I have to make?

Dadashri: ‘You’ should keep Seeing what Chandubhai is doing; that is Your Purusharth. To keep Seeing what the body complex of Chandubhai is doing all day long, that is Purusharth!

As You are Seeing, You can even say, ‘Chandubhai, why have you

(Pg.23)

become so strict with your son? So do pratikraman. You have done atikraman so do pratikraman.’ You can interject in this way.

Questioner: Pratikraman actually ends up being done.

Dadashri: Pratikraman ends up being done, that is what I am saying! Pratikraman indeed ends up being done alongside; it ends up being done automatically. Therefore, You just have to keep Seeing it. Keep Seeing the pratikraman that is being done.

No Interference, Just See

Questioner: When those incidents arise, they give rise to ignorance and its effects. And if ‘I’ want to remain in the state of Gnan, then how can I arrive at that?

Dadashri: It is Chandubhai that remains in those; You remain in this. Nothing will touch You if You remain separate. That is not going to improve. Is that which has become solidified likely to improve? Keep Seeing it, so it becomes released.

Questioner: What is of Chandubhai is going to keep discharging.

Dadashri: The natural activity (dharma) of the pudgal is separate, the natural activity of the Self is separate. The two have nothing to do with each other. How can you interfere in someone else’s function? ‘You’ just have to See that, ‘This is the intent the pudgal is dwelling in.’ For the One who knows how to See, all of this goes away! And if he does not interfere in the unfolding karma, then his work is done! But even if he interferes in it, if he repents and lets go of it immediately, then he is very close to Gnan and so even then his work will get done!

Do Not Interfere in the Unfolding Karma

So You should not interfere in the unfolding karma. If someone is slapping you, you should not ask, “Why are you doing that?” And Chandubhai has the right to ask that, but You do not. Chandubhai even speaks based on the unfolding karma, You should remain the Knower-Seer. ‘You’ have to understand this, do You not? Falsehood will not work in the Vitaraag path (path of the Ones who have attained absolute liberation), falsehood may be tolerated in other paths. This has been spun very finely, it has been spun very finely and placed in a regular stage [presented in a simplified, clear way] and moreover, he [Dadashri] speaks having Seen it in absolute Knowledge (keval Gnan). He does not speak a single word that is baseless. This is something that you can understand, is it not?

Questioner: But this unfolding of karma can only be understood if one has complete awakened awareness (jagruti).

Dadashri: Yes, otherwise he will not understand the unfolding of karma. It is when a lot of awakened awareness remains that one understands, ‘This is the unfolding of karma.’ Some awakened awareness does remain for mahatmas. They do have this Gnan! They have attained Gnan, now all that remains is to attain keval Gnan.

Questioner: What is left for attaining keval Gnan?

(Pg.24)

Dadashri: You have to See where the intellect still creates interferences. So there is no problem with the interferences of the intellect done by Chandubhai. However, You should not get involved in those interferences. ‘You’ should See, so You are in Your state. And when You miss out on that state, then it is considered as having interfered in the unfolding karma. It is Chandubhai’s unfolding karma, but You should not become one with it, then it will not touch You.

Besides Knowing and Seeing, Everything is Interference

Questioner: So does that mean that if Knowing-Seeing does not remain, there is interference and its effects?

Dadashri: Yes, everything besides Knowing-Seeing is interference and its effects. That is indeed worldly life! However, now the reality is that one cannot remain the Knower-Seer, a person does not have that much energy (shakti). Otherwise, if one remains the Knower-Seer, he has indeed become God. But until then, what should one do? If the thought arises to interfere, then do pratikraman at that time. So then it is not considered as interfering. Interference did happen, but You turned it around.

Questioner: You stated a very notable point. But it is not as if a person will be able to See in every instance, is it?

Dadashri: If one cannot, then he should do pratikraman. You should do pratikraman when a thought arises. If You cannot remain as the Knower-Seer in exactness, then do pratikraman. If you end up passing a comment, “Why are you driving so fast?” then you should do pratikraman for it afterwards, ‘This is a mistake of mine.’

Questioner: No, a person does not have the thought of creating interference, but it indeed ends up happening.

Dadashri: Yes, it certainly ends up happening. It is not that it will not happen; it happens for sure. So one interferes, that is the precise problem and that is why this worldly life persists.

Questioner: If One remains as the Knower-Seer, then there is no purpose to the discussion about doing pratikraman, is there?

Dadashri: Who is it that has to do pratikraman? The pratikraman is not to be done by You. As this is Akram Vignan, the kashay (anger-pride-deceit-greed) that remain are a bit dense. Now, when Chandubhai tells someone off, he tells him off in such a way that it hurts the other person. So You should tell Chandubhai, ‘Why did you do atikraman? So now do pratikraman.’ ‘You’, the pure Soul, are not to do pratikraman!

Questioner: ‘I’ am to remain only as the Knower-Seer, and he is to do pratikraman. So Knower-Seer is actually the nature of the Self and pratikraman is to be done by the pudgal.

Dadashri: The atikraman is of the pudgal and pratikraman is also of the pudgal!

Questioner: Yes, if this is understood, then not much confusion remains.

(Pg.25)

Why Interfere in the Filling and Emptying of the Pudgal?

Dadashri: Organizing is of the pudgal, and the karamat (miraculous play of the phases of filling and emptying of the non-Self complex) too is of the pudgal, so why do you stick your head in it? Why interferein that? If you interfere, then its effects will arise.

If You remain as the Knower-Seer of all the kriya (activities of the mind-speech-body), then all the activities are in the form of galan (discharge). Bad habits and good habits are all in the form of discharge. Pudgal continues to undergo input-output (puran-galan), keep Seeing that, do not interfere in that.You will be swept away if you try to stick your hand in it, so just keep Seeing it. The One that is Knowing this puran-galan is the Knower-Seer residing in eternal bliss (Gnata-Drashta-Parmanandi). That very Atma is Parmatma (absolute Self).

The pudgal interferes, it screams and shouts; the Self does not have anything to do with it. After attaining this Gnan, one can understand that the Self is vitaraag (absolutely free from attachment-abhorrence) so why is it that the pudgal screams and shouts? It does not do as You wish, even if You have the desire, it does not do so. That happens, doesn’t it? Why is that? This pudgal is the unfolding of the karma of the past life; it is just a bundle of unfolding karma. When the time comes, it manifests. In that, the person that is ignorant of the Self expresses the ego that, ‘I am doing this.’ He is not doing it, these karma keep doing it. This body is subject to its unfolding. Hence, movement of the hands and legs is subject to that. The intellect, mind, and all that is subject to the pudgal. Even the ego is subject to it, but then one gives rise to a new ego by claiming ‘I am doing’ this. What he believes is an illusion. Karma get bound through that, and then the world runs through that karma. When ‘we’ give you Gnan, this ego of doership leaves immediately, then only the ego as the sufferer (bhokta) remains. So who does this quarreling? This pudgal does. ‘You’ are to keep Seeing that. This and that, what are these two pudgals doing, are they fighting or whatnot, You are to keep Seeing that. Otherwise new karma will get bound once again.

See the Pudgal Without Interfering

The nature of the Self is to rise higher, to go to moksha; its nature is to ascend higher (urdhvagami). The nature of the non-Self complex (pudgal) is to go downwards.

If a dried gourd is given a three-inch thick sugar coating, and then it is dropped in to the ocean, then at first it will sink because of its weight. Then, as the sugar dissolves, it will gradually rise to the top. Similarly, all these effects are constantly dissolving, and (the Self) is rising higher. Whatever interference we create gives rise to new [causes]. The more the layers of parmanu (smallest, most indivisible and indestructible particle of matter), the lower the life-form one descends to; and those with fewer layers go to a higher life-form. And when not even a single veil of parmanu remains, one goes to moksha.

What this pudgal is saying is, “Don’t

(Pg.26)

think that just because You have become pure Soul, You have become free. You have blemished us, so now make us pure, then You are free and so are we.” So You ask, “How can I set you free?” The answer is, “Keep Seeing whatever we are doing. Do not interfere in any way. Keep Seeing without attachment-abhorrence.”

If There is no Interference, Then it Will Continue to Purify

Questioner: This entire science is for the purification of the pudgal, isn’t it? These five sentences that are in the form of Agnas, or this entire science; it is all for the sake of purifying the pudgal, isn’t it? It has nothing to do with the Self.

Dadashri: Fundamentally, there is no need for You to even purify the pudgal. If no belief of impurity comes in in Your pure state, then the pudgal is definitely going to become pure.

If there is no interference (dakho-dakhal) being done in the pudgal, then it will certainly continue to become pure; but this one is doing the interfering. One does the interfering and then the reactions of the interference arise! Who does the interference? It is the ignorant beliefs.

Questioner: One will have to clear all the pudgal parmanus; only then will one attain liberation, correct?

Dadashri: That will indeed happen. When You become pure and reside in Your ‘home’ [in the Self], then that will clear on its own. If you attempt to ‘do’ it, then it will not happen. When You shut all the doors and sit, then it will continue to go out on its own. The hurricane stops and everything is cooled down in the morning. If you take any part in it, then it will be ruined. Therefore, You do not have to do anything, just as nothing needs to be done in the process of dying. Nothing needs to be done at all. If You are sleeping in Your ‘home’, then it is settled.

Do not stick your hand in the effect. The mind-speech-body is just an effect, what is there to be done in that? So there is no need to do anything, is there?

There Is No Use in Interfering in What Is Discharge

The mind, speech, and conduct are continually discharging; now all that needs to be ‘done’ is to keep Seeing that. That which is discharging is not in Your hands. There is no use in trying to interfere in that. ‘You’ are to simply keep Seeing what Chandubhai is doing. This is the only thing that Lord Mahavir did. He would only See what was going on in his own pudgal. He would only See one pudgal, he did not look at anything else. How wise he was! Just talking about him brings joy!

See the Effects of the Corpse, Then Interference Will Not Persist

Lord Mahavir kept Seeing one pudgal. Pudgal meaning corpse. All these are indeed corpses. He used to keep Seeing them. The one hurling abuses is a corpse and the one listening is also a corpse. The one who gets irritated is a corpse and the one who does not get irritated is also a corpse.

So You should keep Seeing what this corpse is doing. If agitation arises,

(Pg.27)

then it belongs to the corpse, if happiness arises, then it also belongs to the corpse. If pleasure arises towards someone, then it also belongs to the corpse, and if he slaps someone, then even that belongs to the corpse. Once You Know the corpse, then you will not interfere. He may say, “This is happening to me.” Hey you, let it happen, it is happening to the corpse. You are the Knower of it. You are separate and the corpse is separate.

Do not interfere in that which is unfolding. Know that which is unfolding, this is what ‘our’ Gnan says. So Chandubhai will indeed remain engrossed (tanmayakar) in what is unfolding; You should Know that. There is no need to interfere in what is unfolding.

Know Even When There is Engrossment

The antahkaran (mind-intellect-chit-ego complex) is becoming engrossed (tanmayakar) within; You have to Know and See that, don’t You? If the antahkaran does not become engrossed within, then no work will get done. It must become engrossed, shouldn’t it?

When ‘we’ get into the car and set out to come here, then everything inside is indeed tanmayakar, but ‘we’ See and Know, ‘we’ remain separate and carry out the function [as the Knower-Seer]. You will not be able to function [as the Knower-Seer] as much, but the awareness (laksha) remains for You that ‘I am pure Soul’. Sometimes when the awareness is forgotten, it still remains in conviction (pratiti). Other than that, everything carries on within; You should keep Seeing it.

Questioner: Thoughts arise and then the engrossment [becoming one with the mind and body] happens. When the chit (that which takes ‘photos’ within the antahkaran and sees previously registered scenes) shows photos, that is considered the state of becoming tanmayakar, isn’t it?

Dadashri: But that is only discharge, there is no problem with that. From the moment You Know that, You are separate and it is separate. The Knower is always separate, the ‘doer’ is the one with the interference. ‘You’ are separate in all aspects.

Questioner: It does indeed remain that way, that it is only Chandubhai that is doing all this. Previously, engrossment in the unfolding of karma used to happen, now instead I See my unfolding karma that, ‘My karma is unfolding in this way.’

Dadashri: Now to See all the unfolding of karma, that is called Akram.

Questioner: It is only when ‘I’ miss out on Seeing that the intellect creates interference, isn’t it?

Dadashri: Yes, but You are Seeing everywhere You missed out on Seeing, aren’t You? But there is no problem with that. We are still stuck on the way to absolute Knowledge, it is nothing else. It is all these small things that are hindrances to absolute Knowledge.

When You Know the Interference, Then You Are Free

Questioner: Now there are two things in this. If Chandubhai’s intellect is interfering, then it will interfere and ‘I’ will Know that.

(Pg.28)

Dadashri: When You Know that, then You are separate and Chandubhai is also separate. If You Know, then both are separate and if You do not Know, then both are bound.

Questioner: So then there is no meaning to the interference caused by the intellect.

Dadashri: No meaning remains at all. The meaning of the intellect is not taken into account here at all. It is due to this person’s unfolding karma that another person is giving it to him, and it is due to his unfolding karma that the first person takes it. It is due to this person’s unfolding karma that he loaned out five lakhs rupees and it is due to the other person’s unfolding karma that he borrowed the money. So then where is the question of interfering? Now when the second person’s unfolding karma comes into effect to pay back the money, then he will pay it back and when the first person’s unfolding karma arises to take it then he will take it, otherwise he will not take it.

Questioner: Then it will do if he doesn’t keep an account book.

Dadashri: What is the need to keep an account book? This is all subtle discussion, along the lines of the Tirthankar Lords!

Questioner: You said that if You Know then Chandubhai is separate and You are also separate, both are separate. I did not understand that.

Dadashri: Why do you not understand this? If Chandubhai has become separate, then You are indeed separate. He is subject to the unfolding karma. That which is subject to the unfolding karma is not held responsible.

Questioner: No, a little confusion arises there. “He is subject to the unfolding karma”; who is ‘he’ in this case? Who is the one that is subject to the unfolding karma?

Dadashri: That is Chandubhai.

Lack of Awareness is Interference

Questioner: Chandubhai is subject to the unfolding karma and the awakened Self is the Knower.

Dadashri: Yes. The awakened Self or the Pragnya of the awakened Self.

Questioner: Now if the awakened Self, Pragnya shakti, is the Knower, then it will not create interference, will it?

Dadashri: It is Chandubhai that creates the interference within, if it is subject to the unfolding karma. However, if ‘one’ does not have the awakened awareness (jagruti) of Pragna shakti, then he becomes one with it. If the awakened awareness is not present, then interference will happen in that.

Questioner: Does Pragnya unite in it?

Dadashri: No, Pragnya does not unite. Pragnya keeps doing its work, but if there is no awakened awareness, then the interference ends up happening. You will even realize that this interference has happened.

Questioner: If Pragnya is not present in the awakened awareness,

(Pg.29)

then who unites with Chandubhai? Who is it that unites with Chandubhai’s interference?

Dadashri: Ajagruti (lack of awakened awareness). That means to not speak, to remain silent; that is called interference. If it is not Seen and Known, that is considered as remaining silent. Lack of awakened awareness is called interference. Who else is going to unite? Moreover, pleasure will even prevail for ‘him’, so that is considered as having become united!

Questioner: For whom does the pleasure prevail?

Dadashri: It is this discharge ego of his. Now, had he remained as the Seer over there, then both would have become separate. This account of his is left pending, so a balance remains for the next life. There is a remainder, and the Tirthankars are free of remainders. This one has a remainder. It will have to be divided again. It should be such that there is no remainder.

The Nature to Interfere Is Not Yours

Questioner: The unfolding karma and Chandubhai; are the two separate? Because you said that Chandubhai will interfere in the unfolding karma, but You should not get involved in that.

Dadashri: Chandubhai will interfere. It is the very nature of ignorance(agnanta) to cause interference in the unfolding of karma. Chandubhai means ignorance, and it is his very nature to create interference.But if You Know that, then both are separate. In not Knowing that, it means you remain silent. And by remaining silent, the signature has been made in that!

Questioner: If we become engrossed (tanmay), if we become one (ekatma) and remain silent, then does that mean we become one with it?

Dadashri: Oh, even when someone reprimands one, even then he does not realize, ‘I am doing something wrong.’ So tell me, what major unfolding karma must be slipping away!

See and Know Even the One Creating Interference as Separate

Questioner: Whatever interference is happening in the unfolding karma, if one remains silent at that time that means the endorsement has happened. So does that mean we should not remain silent at that time?

Dadashri: Just let it happen according to the way it should in the unfolding karma! There is nothing more left to do. Now all that is left is to Know. What does it mean to remain silent? When unfolding karma fight one another, and You do not See that, that means You remained silent. Because You did not apply awareness as the Self (upayog), it led to negligence(pramaad); that is remaining silent. Negligenceis silence. Don’t we need a ‘balance’ in hand for the next life! Will it do if we cash out everything?

Questioner: And if one is not silent, then what will happen?

Dadashri: Both will become separate. If Chandubhai is interfering with the other person, and You See and Know

(Pg.30)

it, then You are separate and Chandubhai is separate. No cause for new karma remains for Chandubhai nor is there any cause for You.

Questioner: If silence is not there, then what is there? What is the antonym for what You refer to as jagruti?

Dadashri: Ajagruti! ‘We’ refer to ajagruti as remaining silent. If jagruti does not remain, that is called pramaad. Jagruti means apramatta (a state of continuous applied awareness as the Self).

Interference Only Happens When One Leaves His Seat

The pure Self that ‘we’ have given you never becomes one with the non-Self complex (tanmayakar). Nonetheless, because one lacks the understanding, because he slips away from his true identity, there is a small interference (dakhal) which results in an effect (dakho). Interference arises simply as a result of leaving the ‘seat’. You should not leave Your ‘seat’. The harm that results from leaving Your ‘seat’ is that the bliss of the Self is obstructed and it is felt as an interference. However, the Self ‘we’ have given You does not move away in even the slightest. It remains exactly the same, in the form of conviction.

Say there is a butcher and I give him Gnan, and if he remains in Gnan and keeps Seeing everything through the Vision as the Self (Atmadrashti), he does not interfere in anything, he remains in my Agnas, then he will attain liberation. The actions as a butcher do not hinder him, the belief that, ‘I am doing this’ is what hinders. For one lifetime, no matter what happens, if You keep Seeing and remain in the Agnas, then this Gnan is such that liberation can be attained within one lifetime!

~ Jai Sat Chit Anand