Table of Contents

September 2024 - Dadavani - English

EDITORIAL

What Is the Self? What Is It Like? Where Is It?

Who Is the One That Has Doubts About the Existence of the Self?

How Can That Which Is Eternal Come and Leave?

How Can There Be a Beginning of the Eternal?

What Is the Self?

The Self Is an Eternal Element

The Real Form as the Self

Where in the Body Is the Self Not Present?

The Self Expands and Contracts According to the ‘Receptacle’

What Is Death? What Happens After Death?

So Many Adjustments of Nature

The Wrong Belief Indeed Is the Cause of Birth and Death

Until When Is There a Connection With the Subtle Body?

How Can You Recognize the Self?

The Main Properties of the Self

Yet One Does Not Have the Energy to Break a Papadam

That Is Not Mechanical Energy

The Energy of the Pudgal Has Even Entangled God

Who Is Stuck to Whom?

The Gnani Purush Knows the Self and the Pudgal

The Self Is Indeed Pure, Only the Beliefs Are Wrong

In Whom Does the Impurity Arise?

The Worldly-Interacting Self Is Believed to Be the Real Self

Only the Living Gnani Illuminates the Facts

Once the Darshan Becomes Pure, You Will Merge With the Pure

With the Experiential Awareness of the Original Self, You Will Attain Liberation

That Undiscovered Real Form, Just So Marvelous!

The Fundamental Mistake Is in the Belief Itself

If You Remain in Swabhaav, Then Swabhaavik Sukh Will Arise

The Gnani Removes the Darkness Related to Spirituality

The Gnani Bestows the Experience of the State as the Self

The Bestower of Moksha Makes You Experience Moksha Right Here

Since Time Immemorial There Has Been a Mistake in Determining the Real Form

All the Religious Tools Have Actually Become a Bondage

Not the Activity, but the Experiential Awareness Needs to Be Changed

Will the Endeavor to Understand the Self Bring Results?

Absolute Separation in Worldly Life Is Attained Through Grace

www.dadabhagwan.org

September 2024 - Dadavani - English

What Is the Self? What Is It Like? Where Is It?

EDITORIAL

The spiritual aspirants and seekers of liberation do not understand the subtlest and the most profound thing of this universe which is One’s own Real form, meaning what One really is, therefore, countless questions in relation to the Self arise in them, such as ‘Would the Self be like this? Or would it be like that? Would it be in the form of light? What must that light be like?’ For the spiritual aspirants and seekers of liberation, to come out of the wrong beliefs that have set in regarding the Self since time immemorial, and to get clarity about the Self in a language that they can understand, and along with that, to understand the Real form as the Self as it is, all this is possible only through the light of Knowledge given by the Akram Vignani(the scientist of the direct path to liberation) Dada Bhagwan [Dadashri].

In the current edition, basic satsang(spiritual discourse with the Gnani) has been compiled from Dadashri’s speech on the doubts regarding the existence of the Self in the world, and also on questions like, where has the Self come from? Who made the Self? What is the reason for the origin of the Self? What is the Self? What is it like? Is the Self an eternal element or not? What does the Self look like? Does the Self have a physical form or is it formless? Is the Self temporary or permanent? Where does the Self reside in the body? How does the contraction and expansion of the Self happen according to the body? What is the difference between the Real Self (Nishchay Atma) and the worldly-interacting Self (vyavahaaratma)? And so on.

While giving assurance of the existence of the Self, Dadashri says, “Just as fragrance exposes the existence of perfume, in the same way although the Self is imperceptible, it can be discerned by its inherent nature.” Infinite Knowledge, infinite Vision, infinite energy, infinite bliss, such is the Real form as the Self. When One realizes His Real form, only then will all these properties unveil through the awareness as the Self!

When the Self leaves the physical body, the subtle body and the causal body go with the Self, and based on the causal body another body is obtained. Even in the infinite temporary states of birth and death, the Self, which neither takes birth nor dies, is always pure! So then how do all these karma get stuck to it? Why does it have to accompany the pudgal(non-Self complex) life after life? In reality, the Self is indeed pure, it is only one’s belief that has become wrong. When that wrong belief leaves, He becomes completely independent! So neither has the pudgal stuck to the Self nor has the Self stuck to the pudgal!

If there is anything in this world worth knowing, then it is the Self. Generally, no one can know the Self by himself. There is rarely anyone in the world who knows the Self. The Gnani Purush (One who has realized the Self and is able to do the same for others) has Seen the Self, Known it and experienced it, and He prevails as nothing but the Self. So it is an ardent prayer that may all the seekers of liberation realize the Self from such a Gnani Purush, may they follow His Agnas (five directives that preserve the awareness as the Self in Akram Vignan) and progress on the path to liberation.

~ Jai Sat Chit Anand

What Is the Self? What Is It Like? Where Is It?

Who Is the One That Has Doubts About the Existence of the Self?

Questioner: Does the Self (Atma) exist or not, there are doubts about this.

Dadashri: The Self definitely exists.

Questioner: The foreign scientists have done all kinds of research; they have kept a person who is about to die in a glass case and they have tried to investigate how does the Self leave? Where does it leave from? They have put in a lot of effort to investigate that. But they couldn’t conclude whether the Self exists or not. So their conclusion was that there is absolutely no such thing as the Self.

Dadashri: But do they say, “This is inanimate”? Is this glass case inanimate or not? It is inanimate, isn’t it? So is a human being and the glass case both the same?

Questioner: No, it is not like that. They mean to say that there is no such thing as the Self that leaves [when a person dies].

Dadashri: Those scientists make a ‘man’ [robot]; they make new hearts, they make all such things, don’t they? So if they make a new ‘man’, would he be able to interact and function in the same way as we do?

Questioner: No, he would not.

Dadashri: So then on what basis can they say that there is nothing like the Self?

Questioner: They placed a person who is about to die in a glass case, but when he was dying, they did not see the Self leaving. So they concluded that there is no such thing as the Self.

Dadashri: It is like this, either someone with the right understanding can say that, or someone without the right understanding can say that. But that does not mean that every person has doubts, right? And the one who has doubts, the one who says that there is nothing like the Self, he himself is the Self. The very person who has doubts is himself the Self, otherwise he would not have doubts. Whereas these inanimate things that exist, they don’t have any doubts. If anyone has doubts, then it is someone who is living who has doubts, there is no other entity that can have doubts. Do you understand this?

Will a person have any doubts after he dies? No. So then what is it that leaves? Does the heart stop functioning? What must be happening?

Questioner: A person dies because his heart stops functioning.

Dadashri: Yes, a person will certainly die. He lives only because he breathes. The life force within stays because of the breathing. It exists as long as the breathing is on.

Questioner: However, a person dies when the essential body parts stop functioning. If that is the case, then there is no such thing as the Self.

Dadashri: There is certainly something called the Self. A person himself is the Self, yet he has doubts on himself. The one having these doubts is himself the Self. The one who has the doubt that there is no Self in the body, is himself the Self. If a person without a tongue in his mouth says, “I do not have a tongue in my mouth,” that itself proves that there is a tongue in his mouth. That is why the statement that ‘there is doubt [whether the Self exists or not]’ is itself a contradiction. People say, “After a person dies, there is no such thing as the Self in it.” The statement itself raises a doubt; a person has this doubt. The doubt itself proves that the Self is present there.

If I were to meet the scientists, I would explain to them right away that it is the living entity that is speaking. Why are you giving rise to a new kind of doubt? So there is definitely a Self in every living being!

How Can That Which Is Eternal Come and Leave?

Questioner: Where did all these living beings or these Souls in this world come from?

Dadashri: No one has come from anywhere. This entire world itself is a display of the six eternal elements. All the six eternal elements make up the world that you see. It is just scientific circumstantial evidences! So no one has made this; no one has had to do anything. It has no beginning and it has no end. I am saying it as it is, that the world has no beginning and no end. It is only because the belief has changed that the worldly life has arisen, and if that belief changes [to the right belief], then moksha (liberation) will arise! It is only a change in belief, there’s nothing else.

That which comes can never be eternal, and the Self is an eternal element; therefore, it cannot come and then leave. That which comes will leave, whereas the Self is not like that.

How Can There Be a Beginning of the Eternal?

Questioner:Who has created the Self?

Dadashri: No one has created it. If it was created, then it would have been destroyed. The Self is something that is constantly present; it is an eternal element. It has never had a beginning. No one has created it. If there was a creator, then even the creator would come to an end, and even the creation would come to an end.

Questioner: Why has something like the Self come into existence? What is the reason for the Self to exist?

Dadashri: The fact of the matter is, the Self is something that does not come into existence, it does not get destroyed. It is permanent. That which is permanent does not have an origin. Do you understand this or not? A temporary thing has an origin, but can a permanent thing have an origin? Therefore, the Self within is permanent. Don’t people say that when the body dies the Self has left? It leaves and then it acquires another body. The body keeps changing but the Self is permanent. Hence there is no question at all about the origin of the Self. Something comes into existence only if it is temporary. But the Self is permanent, it is eternal.

There are six eternal elements in this world: Time, Space, that which supports motion, that which supports inertia, inanimate matter, and this Self. These six are eternal elements. Only these six elements are actually permanent, they are eternal. That which is eternal, it cannot be a result of someone’s creation, it is natural. These eternal elements are constantly undergoing change, and it is because of these changes that you see all these temporary states (avastha). And people consider the temporary states as, ‘This is my form.’ The temporary states are temporary, whereas the eternal elements are permanent. Therefore, the Self does not have to come into existence at all.

What Is the Self?

Questioner:What is Atma (the Self)?

Dadashri:Atma means Chetan (the eternal element with the function of Knowing and Seeing).

Questioner: So does Chetan mean Atma and Atma means Chetan?

Dadashri:No. Atma is just a word, and even Chetan is just a word, but I have to use these words for people to recognize it. However, it is beyond words. Nonetheless, some hint needs to be given as to what it is like, isn’t it! Otherwise, it cannot be recognized. How can Atma be recognized? Don’t people say, “Go look for your Atma”? Atma means the Self! To know, ‘Who you are’ is called Atma! And it is that Atma which you need to recognize. When the wrong belief [of ‘I am Chandubhai’] goes away and the right belief [that ‘I am the Self’] is established, then this will be resolved. Otherwise, how will this be resolved?

The Self Is an Eternal Element

Is the Self a vastu (an eternal element), or is it avastu (not an eternal element)?

Questioner:Avastu.

Dadashri: And this which you can see, is it a vastu or is it avastu?

Questioner: The Self cannot be seen, therefore, it is avastu. Vastu is something that is visible, isn’t it?

Dadashri: No. Let me explain vastu and avastuto you. Anything that is eternal is called vastu, and anything that is temporary is called avastu. The Self is certainly in the form as the Self. As an eternal element, the Self isthe abode ofinfiniteproperties!And in the form of its elemental matter (dravya), everyeternal elementhas its own properties (guna) and phases (paryay). That which has elemental matter, properties and phases is referred to as vastu. Vastu is referred to as eternal. Even the Self is an eternal element. It has its own elemental matter, its own properties and its own phases. And those phases have genesis (utpaat), dissipation (vyay) and permanence (dhruv). And everything that is visible to the eyes is avastu, it is temporary and the Self is permanent, it is vastu.

The Real Form as the Self

Questioner: What does the Self look like? Does it appear as something radiant or does it have some other shape?

Dadashri: It does not have any shape or form, nor is it formless. The form of the Self is all a person’s imagination; it is a matter of the intellect. The Self is nothing but the Self; it is prakashswaroop (in the form as illumination). Yes, the kind of illumination that does not need any place, that does not need any support, that is the prakashswaroop of the Self. And it can even travel through and through the mountains; that is how the Self is.

Questioner: But if I want to imagine the Self in any sort of a form, how should I imagine it?

Dadashri:There is no need at all to imagine its form; instead, sit with saakaari Bhagwan (the embodied form in which the Self that is formless has manifested). Saakaari Bhagwan Himself is the Real form as the Self! The One who is the Knower of the Self while living in a physical body, He is referred to as saakaari Bhagwan. You should imagine in that manner; you should do His darshan (live connection with an enlightened One through eye contact) along with His entire ‘temple’ [the body in which the Self has manifested]. As such, the Self has no form.You have to know itsReal form which is formless from the GnaniPurush (One who has realized the Self and is able to do the same for others)! Thereafter, you will comprehend its form, it will ‘fit’ [set in your understanding], and then you will never forget it!

So the Self has no form or shape; it is something that is without any form. Nevertheless, what is the Self like by its inherent nature? Whichever body it is in; it will assume the shape of that body. But over there, in Siddhagati (realm of the absolutely liberated Souls who have attained ultimate liberation), the shape of the body which was there in the final life before attaining liberation, one-third of that shape gets reduced. Therefore, the Self remains as two-thirds of that shape. The body of someone who is in the fifth era of the time cycle is vastly different from the body of someone who is in the third era of the time cycle. The height of the former is very different from the latter. However, the last body that a living being has before attaining final liberation, it is in the shape of that very body that the Self resides in Siddhagati. But the Self is without any shape or form.

Questioner: Just as when we move our hands about in the air and catch nothing, in the same way when we go to moksha and move our hands in moksha, then would we hit anything?

Dadashri: No. If you were to move your hands around like this, you would not catch hold of anything. In fact, even if you were to pass a burning torch through the Self, the Self would not get burnt. Even if you were to move your hand through it, your hand would not be able to touch the Self. That is what the Self is like. If you were to rub ice over that Self, even then it would not turn cold, and if you were to put a sword through it, it would just not get cut.

Questioner: Despite that, it has some form, doesn’t it?

Dadashri: It is a formless form, its form is niranjan(that to which no karma can attach or affect) and formless. It is not the form that you imagine it to be. It has its own natural form.

Where in the Body Is the Self Not Present?

Questioner: The Self cannot be captured on an x-ray, it cannot be photographed through any device.

Dadashri: Yes, the Self is very subtle (sookshma); therefore, it cannot be captured in any way! It cannot be caught on camera, nor is it visible to the eyes, you cannot even see it through binoculars, you cannot see it through anything; that is how subtle the Self is.

Questioner: That is why I am surprised, where could the Self be?

Dadashri: If a burning flame were to pass through the Self, even then the flame would not touch it. That is how subtle the Self is.

Questioner: But where is the Self located in this body?

Dadashri: The question is, where is the Self not located in the body? The Self is not present in the hair [that has grown] on the head, and it is not present in the part of the nails that we trim. The Self is present everywhere else in the body. So you do not need to ask ‘where is the Self located in the body?’ but you need to ask ‘where in the body is the Self not present?’

Questioner: Generally, the Self is in the brain, isn’t it? And is it not because of the nerves that we feel the pin prick?

Dadashri: No, the Self is present in the entire body. The brain is in the head, which is actually a machinery. And it is a tool that provides all the internal information [of the body]. The Self exists throughout the body. If a thorn slightly pricked you on the foot, then you would immediately feel it, wouldn’t you?

So this [visible form] that you can see, that very ‘photo’ is of the Self. The only thing is that it is covered up with layers. However, the ‘photo’ is of the Self. Thereafter, the ‘photo’ of the Self remains as it is.

So in whichever part of the body you poke a pin and you feel it, the Self is present there. If someone poked you with a pin in the night, even then you would feel it, wouldn’t you? When pain is felt anywhere in the body from a pin prick, it is the Self that Knows it. Otherwise, after the Self has left from the body, no matter how many times you poked the body with a pin, even then Chandubhai would not utter a word, he would not flinch at all.

Questioner: Can we say that it is the Self that undergoes this pain?

Dadashri: The Self can never undergo pain. If you put a burning flame on ice, then will it burn the ice?

Questioner: It does not hurt when we cut our hair, so the Self is not present there?

Dadashri: It is not present there.

Questioner: And where we feel pain, the Self is present there, right?

Dadashri: Yes, the Self is present there.

Questioner: So if it is affected by pain and pleasure, then does the Self not become worldly?

Dadashri: No, the Self does not become worldly. The Self remains in its original Real form alone. It is the self that you believe [to be the Self], that has become worldly. What you consider to be the Self, that has become worldly, and that is actually mechanical. So, as long as you put ‘petrol’ in it, it will work; otherwise it will stop. If you were to keep your nose pinched, then within half an hour to an hour, the ‘machine’ [the physical body complex] would stop functioning. Thus people believe the mechanical self to be the [original] Self. They have not seen the original Self, they have not heard even a single word about the original Self, and they try to still the mechanical self. But the mechanical [self] can never become still.

The Self Expands and Contracts According to the ‘Receptacle’

Questioner: Can the Self ever be cut?

Dadashri: The Self cannot be cut, it cannot be split, nothing happens to it.

Questioner: What if my hand is cut off from here?

Dadashri: The Self will shrink by that much. The nature of the Self is to expand and contract, but only when it is in the temporary state of worldly life. That is not the case when it is in the state as Siddha (in the absolutely liberated state). In the worldly state, it can contract as well as expand. Even in an ant, the Self is in its entirety, and even in an elephant, there is only one Self which is there in its entirety. But it is expanded [in an elephant]. When an arm or leg is cut off, the Self contracts, and that too, only when a certain portion is cut off does it contract. Then it does not contract any further.

Questioner: When they cut the body or split it open, you still cannot see the Self.

Dadashri: The Self is certainly not something that you can see. But when the body is cut, the Self leaves, doesn’t it? When a person dies, what is it that leaves?

Questioner: It is the Self that leaves.

Dadashri: Yes, it leaves, yet you cannot see it. But it is there for sure. It is illumination; it is in the form as light. All this is the light of the Self. If it is not there, then everything will come to an end. Have you seen the body once the Self has left from the body? Have you seen a body being taken to the funeral pyre? Does it still have light in it?

Questioner: No.

Dadashri: That means the Self has left the body. So the Self is itself jyotiswaroop (the Real form as the light of infinite Knowledge, Vision, and bliss).

What Is Death? What Happens After Death?

Questioner: What is death?

Dadashri: Death is like this; say a shirt is stitched, that is equivalent tothe shirt’s birth. And as it takes birth, it is inevitable that it will die.Anything that is born is bound to die. Whereas the Self is never born (ajanma) and never dies (amar); it never undergoes death. So, all the things that are born are bound to die, and because there is death, they will be born [again]. So, birth is linked with death. Where there is birth, there is bound to be death.

Questioner: But what, in fact, is death?

Dadashri: You go off to sleep at night, so where do you go? And in the morning, where do you come from?

Questioner: I don’t know that.

Dadashri: That is how birth and death are. In the interim, one is ‘asleep’, and when he is born, he ‘wakes up’. From the time he dies, until the time he is born, he is ‘sleeping’. ‘You’ [as the Self] are eternal; therefore, birth and death do not happen to You! Birth and death are temporary states. A person is the very same, but does he not have three temporary stages?There is the stage of childhood, later there is the stage of youth, and then there is the stage of old age, isn’t there? Those are temporary states, but he remains one and the same, isn’t it? Moreover, those are the temporary states of the body. Similarly, birth and death is also of the body; the birth and death is not of the Self. It is not Your own birth and death, it is not the birth and death of the Self.

Questioner: So then why does death take place?

Dadashri:It’s like this; at the time of birth, the three ‘batteries’ of the mind, speech, and body start giving off effects right from the womb. Until the effects come to an end, until the account of the ‘batteries’ comes to an end, the ‘batteries’ remain, and once they exhaust, that is what is referred to as death. However, new ‘batteries’ for the next life continue to be charged within and the old ‘batteries’ continue to discharge.In this way, charging and discharging continue to happen. This is because one has the wrong belief [of ‘I am Chandubhai’]. Therefore, causes are created. As long as there is the wrong belief, there is attachmentand abhorrence, which gives rise to new causes. And once this wrong belief changes and the right belief [of ‘I am pure Soul’] sets in, then attachment and abhorrence and new causes do not arise.

Questioner: When the body dies, where does the Self go?

Dadashri:The fact is, the Self is eternal, it is permanent, it is forever. It does not have to come and go anywhere. And when the body dies, the Self does not have any control over where it will go. Even that is under the control of scientific circumstantial evidences. So, it has to go wherever the evidence takes it. The only permanent thing in all this is the Self, everything else is temporary. The mind, intellect, chit (inner component of knowledge and vision) and ego are all temporary. And the Self is such that it is completely separate from this body. Just as this cloth and my body are separate, aren’t they? That is how much separate the body and the Self are; they are completely separate.

So Many Adjustments of Nature

Questioner: At the time of death, while leaving one body and before entering another body, where, for how long, and how does the embodied soul (jeev) exist? How long does it take to enter another body?

Dadashri: It takes no time at all. It is still here in the body [that is dying] and it is already present in the womb [of the mother of the next life]. If the dying person is here in Vadodara and the womb is in Delhi, then it is present in that womb and it is also present here in this body. So there is no time lag in this. It cannot remain without a body even for a short while.

When it is about to leave the body here, the sperm and the ovum unite over there at that time. Once the two come together, it leaves from here. Otherwise, it would just not leave from here. Because if it were to leave from here, then what would it eat over there? It might enter the womb, but what would it eat? There is only the father’s sperm and the mother’s ovum; so upon entering there, it immediately consumes that out of hunger. And after eating it, it develops into an embryo. Just look at that, it is all scientific circumstantial evidences, isn’t it?

So it does not even take long to leave from here. Now if over there, the time is not yet right, then over here the dying will linger on, the person will keep moaning in this body. If you were to ask him, “Why are you not leaving yet? Hurry up, leave.” He would reply, “No, they are still not ready for me over there!” Do they not go on moaning at the last moment? When the adjustments are made over there, that is when it starts to leave from here. But once it leaves from here, everything is indeed ready over there.

The Wrong Belief Indeed Is the Cause of Birth and Death

Questioner: So that means when another birth is about to be taken, then it is the same Self that goes there.

Dadashri: Yes, that very Self, no other.

Questioner: So then can we not say that even the Self takes birth?

Dadashri: No, the Self can never be born. It is not the inherent nature of the Self at all to take birth. It is the pudgal (the non-Self complex) that takes birth and it is also the pudgal that dies. But because it [the developing I] has this belief that, ‘I am this [Chandubhai]’, it has to drag along. Otherwise, it is the pudgal that takes birth and it is the pudgal that dies.

Questioner: But the Self is presentalongwith the pudgal, isn’t it?

Dadashri: It is because of the wrong belief that the Self is with the pudgal; otherwise, once the wrong belief leaves, the Self and the pudgal have nothing to do with each other, do they! Once the wrong belief has gone, whatever was charged gets discharged, and then it is all finished, nothing new will be charged.

In any of the karma that are unfolding right now, if you say, “I am the owner of those karma,” and if you say, “I did them,” then a new karmic account is created. And if You understand that it was all done by vyavasthit (scientific circumstantial evidence), and that ‘I am the pure Soul,’ then You have nothing to do with the karma.

Questioner: In that case, there would not be another birth, right?

Dadashri: Yes, then You would be free. But in this era of the time cycle, it is not possible to completely discharge the karma. Meaning, the force [of karma] is so overwhelming that it takes one or two lifetimes. Once the sense of doership comes to an end, that is it, it is finished, karma are no longer being bound.

Now there is only one cause of birth and death, and that is the lack of awareness of ‘who you really are’; this is the only reason. In Jainism it is said that, ‘One is bound because of raag (attachment), dwesh(abhorrence) and agnan(ignorance of the Self)’; even Vedanta (one of the six orthodox schools of Hinduism) states, ‘One is bound because of mal (illusion), vikshep(projection due to illusion), and agnan.’ They both agree on agnan. Therefore, a person is bound through agnan, and he can become free through Gnan (Knowledge of the Self). When One attains the Knowledge of who He really is, when that experiential awareness is attained, that is when He can become free.

Until When Is There a Connection With the Subtle Body?

Questioner: When an embodied soul enters a new body, does it bring along the five sensory organs and the mind and all of that with it?

Dadashri: No, nothing at all. The sensory organs exhaust and come to an end, the sensory organs actually die. And from the causal body, the new ones arise. So the sensory organs do not go along with it. Only anger, pride, deceit, and greed go along with it. Anger, pride, deceit, and greed are encompassed in the causal body. And what is the subtle body like? As long as one does not attain moksha,it remains together with him. No matter what life-form one attains, the subtle body remains together with him.

Thus, the Self is not the only one to leave the body. Along with the Self, all the karma, the causal karma, those which comprise the causal body, and thirdly, the electrical body, all three of these leave together [at the time of death]. As long as a living being is in worldly life, he will definitely have an electrical body. Once the causal body is formed, the electrical body is always with it. The electrical body is definitely present in every living being, and it is on the basis of the electrical body that the [physical] body functions. The electrical body carries out the process of digestingthe food we eat. It produces blood, circulates the blood, it carries out all these functions. The ability to see, that light is due to the electrical body, and anger, pride, deceit, and greed also happen because of the electrical body. The Self does not have any anger, pride, deceit, or greed at all. Even discharge anger (gusso; anger without violent intent) is a ‘shock’ of the electrical body.

Questioner: So the electrical body must be playing a role in the process of charging [karma], mustn’t it?

Dadashri: Charging [of karma] can only take place if the electrical body is present. Otherwise, if the electrical body is not present, then nothing will function at all. If the electrical body is present, but the Self is absent, even then nothing will function. These are all ‘federal causes’.

Questioner: When a living being dies, how does the electrical body (tejassharir) go with it?

Dadashri: For how long does the electrical body remain? It is there as long as there is a balance of karma. Once the balance of karma is finished, the electrical body will no longer be there. So it remains for the entire life right until the end [until one attains moksha]. In every living being, in trees and everything, there is an electrical body. If that electrical body was not there, then how would they function? In English, the tejassharir is referred to as the electrical body. And without ‘electricity’, nothing would work in this ‘home’, you would not be able to see anything. If ‘electricity’ stops, then that’s it, everything ends!

It is like this, if you light the stove to heat water, even if there was one liter of water, it will eventually all disappear, won’t it?

Questioner: Yes.

Dadashri: The water is in a gross (sthool) form, and that which evaporates away is the subtle (sookshma) form. In the same way, this body is in a gross form, you can see it, but the subtle form is something that you cannot see. But the subtle body is very much like this one, there is no other difference between the two. The subtle body means the electrical body.

Questioner: But when the Self leaves, how does the causal body, and the electrical body go with it? Why don’t they leave with something else?

Dadashri: The water that you boil, the hydrogen and oxygen in the water will evaporate together and then they will separate. But when they evaporate, they evaporate together. They separate out and they also come back together. That is a karmic account. It is because of the karmic account that the electrical body stays bound to it. There is no other mixing that takes place. That electrical body remains the same life after life, and nothing on the outside can affect it. Just as this physical body does not allow another physical body to affect it, the same is true for that subtle body. This physical body is visible to the eyes, whereas the subtle body is not visible to the eyes, there is no other difference. Even the shape is the same, it is only that you can see the physical body and you cannot see the subtle body; that is the only difference. So there is no mixing of any kind in it. The subtle body does not mix with anything. There is ‘my-ness’ (mamata) here [in this physical body], similarly there is ‘my-ness’ in the subtle body as well, everything is there.

It is like this, as long as one is in the state of worldly life, the subtle body certainly stays together with him. The state of worldly life means the state of illusion. As long as it is there, the subtle body remains.

Questioner: So is the Self separate from the subtle body or is it bound with it?

Dadashri:It is certainly separate; it is not bound. The worldly-interacting self (vyavahaaratma) is bound, while the Real [original] Self is not bound. The self which is being used in worldly interactions is the one that is bound.

Questioner: When another birth is taken, it is the subtle body that takes birth, isn’t it?

Dadashri: Yes, why not just say that it is the ego that takes birth! You do not know the subtle body, you have never seen the subtle body. More so, you learned the word ‘subtle body’ by reading the scriptures. So, it is indeed the ego that takes birth, just say that! Do you recognize the ego or not? It is indeed the ego that acquires a new body, over and over again. There is the worldly-interacting self and there is the Real Self. The Real Self is not bound, it is indeed pure.

So, all this complication is of the ego indeed. If the ego departs, then moksha will be attained. That’s it. You will be able to understand this precise point, won’t you?

The subtle body that you refer to, it is the very same body that goes to the next life. You understand that fact, don’t you? Otherwise, how can the subtle be recognized? The subtle is something different; only the Gnanis can know it. People merely go around saying ‘subtle body’ after reading about it in the scriptures. However, they do not even understand the physical body, so how would they understand the subtle body?

How Can You Recognize the Self?

Questioner: Can we see the Self? Or is it just an imagination?

Dadashri: You cannot see air, yet you know that there is air, don’t you? Or do you not know that? You can smell a perfume, but can you see the fragrance? Nevertheless, you are sure that there is perfume around, don’t you? In the same way, you should have the assurance that the Self exists! Just as perfume can be recognized through its fragrance, the Self can be recognized through its bliss (sukh). Thereafter, the world is seen as it is. Based on that, you will get the assurance that the Self has infinite properties. The Self is an element that spans throughout the past, present and future time and it is the abode of infinite bliss. The Self itself is Parmatma (the absolute Self), but you should attain the experiential awareness of that. Once you have that experiential awareness, all the properties will manifest. There are many aspects of the Self; it is the abode of infinite properties! Until now, you have not even known a single property of the Self.

The Main Properties of the Self

Questioner: Through what characteristic can the Self be recognized?

Dadashri: Well, what actually needs to be recognized is its permanent state; it is the abode of infinite bliss. Infinite Knowledge(Gnan), infinite Vision(Darshan), infinite bliss (sukh). The bliss of One’s own Self is not to be sought from things external to the Self. And of course, the Self does not have any unhappiness at all.

Questioner: The Self has been called an abode of infinite properties, so which are those properties?

Dadashri: There are two main properties of the Self: Knowledgeand Vision. And it has endless other properties. Infinite Knowledge, infinite Vision, infinite energy (shakti), infinite bliss, these four properties are its major ones; they are incredible.

The original Self is indeed pure.It is nothing other than pure Knowledge. But what is considered as pure Knowledge? Based on which ‘thermometer’ can it be considered pure Knowledge? The answer is, the Knowledge that does not cause any attachment, abhorrence or fear to arise, such Knowledge is pure Knowledge. And pure Knowledge, param jyotiswaroop(the Real form as the absolute light of infinite Knowledge, Vision, and bliss), that itself is the absolute Self. The absolute Self is not something tangible, it is in the Real form as Knowledge, it is nothing but absolute Knowledge.

Yet One Does Not Have the Energy to Break a Papadam

Questioner: Is there infinite energy in the Self?

Dadashri: Yes, but that energy should manifest through the Gnani Purush. Just as when you went to school, you were taught things, weren’t you? Your knowledge was already there within you, but they helped manifest it. In the same way, all the energies of the Self manifest through the Gnani Purush. There is infinite energy, but all that energy just lies ‘undermine’ [hidden]. ‘We’ reveal those energies. There are a lot of [hidden] energies! Not just in you, but such energy exists in every living being. But what can be done? There are layers upon layers cast over it!

Questioner: Is there any relation between the energy of the Self and the energy of the body [the energy of the ego]?

Dadashri: The two energies are completely different.

Questioner: Do they both affect each other?

Dadashri: Of course they do! It is due to the energy of the body [energy of the ego] that the energy of the Self has been blocked. If the energy of the body [energy of the ego] is more, then beastliness increases.

Questioner: And what if the energy of the Self is greater?

Dadashri: In that case, beastliness decreases and humanity arises.

Questioner: So then what efforts should one make to attain the energy of the Self?

Dadashri: The energy of the Self is indeed present within. The energy of the Self is the energy to prevail as the absolute Self. However, that absolute Self does not have the energy to break even one roasted papadam(very crunchy, thin flatbread made from black bean gram flour), and yet it is the owner of infinite energy!

Questioner: Yes, it does not have the energy to break a papadam, but on one side you say that the Self has infinite energy, so are there two kinds of energies?

Dadashri: Yes, there are two kinds of energies. One energy is that of Knowledge and Vision, in which there are feelings, and the other is the energy to carry out any activity, in which there are no feelings. The infinite energy that the Self has refers to this first type of energy; the energy of the Self is endless, but it is not the latter type of energy. On the contrary, one says, “I reached there, that is actually due to my energy.” Hey, that is not Your energy at all, that is actually a result.

That Is Not Mechanical Energy

Questioner: If the Self, the absolute Self, is not able to ‘do’ anything, then why do we refer to it as having infinite energy?

Dadashri: The Self, the absolute Self, has infinite energy, but it does not have this mechanical energy that you understand it to be. The mechanical energy arises from power; all this is mechanical energy. If you put food inside, then this ‘machine’ [the body] will function. If you do not put food into it, if you do not give it air, then the ‘machine’ will stop.

There are two kinds of energies; one is the energy to make machines and the other, this Self does not ‘do’ anything, yet it has infinite energy! God [the absolute Self] has endless energy, but the energy is not for ‘doing’ anything; everything functions in His presence.

Questioner: But Dada, if the Self is akriya (in the state as the Knower-Seer; in the state as a non-doer), then from where did all this energy come in it?

Dadashri: It is the owner of infinite energy. It is akriya, so it does not carry out these kinds of activities. These activities which involve efforts are mechanical; it does not ‘do’ anything mechanical. However, its Gnan kriya (the activity of Knowing) is incredible, its Darshan kriya (the activity of Seeing) is incredible. It is the owner of infinite energy, how incredible! The energy is not a mechanical energy. The mechanical energy that enables this machinery to function or this mechanical energy that enables this giving and taking, all of that energy is of the Pudgal (the eternal element of inanimate matter). It is the energy of the Parmanu(the smallest, most indivisible and indestructible particle of inanimate matter).

The Self has infinite Gnanshakti (the energy of Knowing). It is not as if it has only one or two Gnanshakti, it has infinite Gnanshakti; and in fact it is on the basis of that, that this knowledge of astrology, the knowledge of law, medical knowledge, all such knowledge has come to light. Each person has his own field of knowledge. All those fields of knowledge can be unveiled; the Self has that much Gnanshakti! So the Self is the owner of infinite energy! It has infinite Gnanshakti and infinite viryashakti (energy as the Self)! It possesses very wondrous energies, that is the kind of absolute Self itis!

The Energy of the Pudgal Has Even Entangled God

Questioner: What is the difference between the energy of the Self and the energy of the pudgal(the non-Self complex)?

Dadashri: The pudgal too has infinite energy. It has form and it is sakriya (inherently active; continuously in some kind of activity). And that pudgal is not the kind to back off easily. The pudgal has obstructed God [the absolute Self]. Even God has become entangled within it! A spider prepares a cocoon-like web around itself, it prepares a web and then it becomes perplexed within it; that is what the state [of the absolute Self] is. This is the craftsmanshipof the pudgal.

Questioner: You said that both, the pudgal and the Self, have infinite energy, and along with that you also explained that the energies of the two are different and unique, they do not have anything to do with each other, so then in what manner has the pudgal obstructed God?

Dadashri: One believed, ‘This pudgalis verily who ‘I’ am’ and that is why its energy entered into the pudgal, and so the pudgal became energized. And from the moment the awakened awareness has set in that, ‘I am the Self’, it has become separate from the pudgal. However, it takes time for the energized pudgal to become neutral and it also takes time for the separated Self to attain completion.

Who Is Stuck to Whom?

Questioner: Is the Self stuck to the pudgal or is the pudgal stuck to the Self?

Dadashri: The fact is, nothing is stuck to each other. Everything is based on evidences. It’s just that in worldly interactions, people say, “The Self has stuck to it.” That is why people say things like, “You have held on to the tree, so let go of it.” But is it so easy to let go of it? These are actually scientific circumstantial evidences.

Questioner: But it seems as though the Self is stuck to the pudgal. The Self becomes engrossed with the pudgal, hence this has happened.

Dadashri: It has no choice but to become engrossed.

Questioner: Why is it mandatory for the Self? Who made it mandatory?

Dadashri: It is like this, the Self is Chaitanya (the Knower and Seer) and the pudgal is inanimate, when the two come into proximity with each other, visheshbhaav (a third identity with completely new properties) arises. No one is actually doing anything, but because the two come together, visheshbhaav arises, and because of visheshbhaav, worldly life begins. But when the Self comes into its original inherent nature, when the developing I realizes, ‘Who am I?’ then it becomes free. Thereafter, the pudgal leaves.

Questioner: How did the two come into close proximity with each another?

Dadashri: That is indeed due to these evidences!All this is encountered the moment one becomes involved in the relative. All that is relativeis filled with circumstances. And where there are no circumstances, the Self has to go there, to the absolutely liberated state. For that, the scriptures, the Gnani Purush, all kinds of tools will be found; which is when one will realize His own Real form as the Self (swaroop), and from then on, He begins to become free. A solution will be found in one, two or fifteen lifetimes at the most!

So the Self itself has not fallen into the trap of the pudgal at all. It feels that it has, but that is a wrong belief. Once that wrong belief leaves, the Self is anyway separate.

Throughout the course of worldly life, the Self has certainly remained as the Self. However, the ego that arises within, that is the one who suffers. It experiences pleasure, and it also suffers pain. And it is because of this suffering that all this has come about; the wrong belief has arisen. There have been no changes in the Self; the Self has not become spoiled. Here [on the Akram path], ‘we’ remove one’s wrong belief, and ‘we’ in fact give him the entire Self.

The Gnani Purush Knows the Self and the Pudgal

Questioner: When the Pudgal(the eternal element of inanimate matter) and the Self are separated, one becomes free, doesn’t he?

Dadashri:The Pudgal has nothing at all to do with this. When One understands that His Real form is the Self, when He gets the experiential awareness of that, the Self manifests. And once He gets a taste of that, His [spiritual] work will get done. Therefore, the Self and the Pudgal have nothing to do with one another. This Chandubhai is outside the Self. It is because you have strayed so far away from the Self that you say, “I am Chandubhai.”

There are only twoeternal elements in all this, the Self and the Pudgal. The One who knows the Self, He has understood the Pudgal, and the One who knows the Pudgal, He has understood the Self. However, it is not possible to understand the Pudgal; it is not a very simple thing. Whereas, with the help of the GnaniPurush, it is possible to know the Self. If One knows the Pudgal completely, then He knows the Self, or if One knows the Self completely, then He knows the Pudgal. Similar to how if you know what wheat is, then you would be able to recognize the bits of grit in it, and if you know the bits of grit, then you would be able to recognize wheat.

The Self Is Indeed Pure, Only the Beliefs Are Wrong

Questioner: The Self, in its original inherent nature is indeed pure, so how have these kashay (anger, pride, deceit and greed) stuck onto it and how have karma been charged?

Dadashri: That is Science! If we keep a piece of iron here, and if that iron was living, then it would say, “Do not let me rust.” But the scientific law is that if it comes into contact with other circumstances, it is bound to rust. In the same way, the Self is indeed pure by its original inherent nature, but because of the pressure from circumstances, there is ‘rust’ on it.

Questioner: Right now, the Self is covered by karma, but once the Self sheds all the karma, then will there be any ‘rusting’ on it?

Dadashri:It is such that until one comes into the awareness as the Self, the ‘rusting’ will continue, the ‘rusting’ will happen constantly. The awareness as the Self has been lost, there is aaropitbhaav (the false attribution of the belief that ‘I am Chandubhai’), hence, the ‘rusting’ will continue. ‘I am Chandubhai’ is aaropitbhaav,and therefore the ‘rusting’ continues. Once the aaropitbhaav goes away and You come into Your inherent nature, meaning You come into Your Real form as the Self, You come into the state of the Knower and Seer of the relative self, then the ‘rusting’ will nothappen anymore!

Questioner: What must the Self be like as an eternal element in the very beginning that it got ‘rusted’?

Dadashri:All these eternal elements are present in the universe, and as long as they are present in the universe, they will continually be affected by other eternal elements. This is called a scientific circumstantial evidence. When the Self will transcend beyond the universe, when it will ascend to Siddhagati, then it will not get ‘rusted’ there.

The fact of the matter is, no other karma have been charged. The karma have been charged only due to losing the awareness as the Self. Otherwise, the Self is indeed pure. Even now the Self within you is indeed pure. Everyone’s Self is indeed pure, but the external form that has come about, it is in that form that your wrong belief has arisen. Right from birth, you are imparted agnan (ignorance of the Self; relative knowledge; wrong knowledge) about that form. There is worldly life, so from the moment a baby boy is born, he is imparted agnan, they willsay, “Oh, it is a boy, a baby boy, a baby boy.” Then he is given the name ‘Chandu’, so they all start calling him, “Chandu, Chandu,” and hence he starts believing, ‘I am Chandu’. Then they introduce him to his daddy, and they introduce him to his mummy. Nothing but agnan is imparted to him. He is told, “You are Chandu, this is your mummy, this is your daddy,” because of such introduction, the wrong belief has set in, and it just doesn’t leave. Only when the GnaniPurush breaks that wrong belief does the right belief set in, and it is then that a permanent solution will come about! So the Self is indeed pure, but this is only a matter of change in the belief!

Questioner: But how did this begin?

Dadashri:It is because the eternal elements have come into close proximity that these temporary states have arisen. This worldly life means the path of natural and spiritual evolution (samsaranmarg), and natural and spiritual evolution means that it is constantly undergoing change. It is because of these changes that you feel that your Self is certainly impure; however, I see your Self as pure indeed. It is only because wrong beliefs have set in you that you perceive it as being impure. I will fracture those wrong beliefs and I will set the right belief, so even You will see it as pure.

This is just a wrong belief (mithya darshan) that has set in; where there is no happiness, one believes that there is happiness there. When ‘we’ give Gnan, he finds the right path. And once he finds the path, things will fall into place. When ‘we’ change his wrong belief and give him the right belief that ‘I am pure Soul’ (samyak Darshan), things will get solved for him, but until then, there will be no solution.

The Self is indeed pure. Even right now, the Self within you is indeed pure, it’s only that wrong beliefs have set in. You believe that happiness lies in these temporary things. Whatever you can see with your eyes, whatever you can hear with your ears, whatever you can taste with your tongue, they are all temporary adjustments, and you believe that there is happiness in those temporary things. At present, you are under the influence of this wrong belief. When the wrong belief is fractured, you will no longer find happiness in temporary things; you will find happiness in the permanent. Permanent happiness is eternal happiness; once it comes, it never leaves. That itself is considered as having attained the Self, that is considered the state of experience of the Self. As One progresses further from this state of experience of the Self, the absolute state (purnahuti) will be attained.

In Whom Does the Impurity Arise?

Questioner: Despite being so cautious, why do impure phases (paryay) still arise out of the Self?

Dadashri:So then how does it affect you?

Questioner: Do I not bind karma?

Dadashri:If the impure phases arise out of you, then of course you bind karma! They do not arise out of the Self at all. There are no impure phases in the Self whatsoever. So if you want to understand what exactly it is, then these impure phases and pure phases, all arise out of you.

Let me tell you the fundamental facts. There are two kinds of Atma; one is the original Self, and in the presence of this original Self, the other self that has arisen is the worldly-interacting self. The original Self is the Real Self (Nishchay Atma), no change has occurred in it whatsoever. The Real Self is the same as it has always been, and from that, the worldly-interacting selfhas arisen. Just aswhen youstand in front of a mirror, would two Chandubhai be seen or not?

Questioner: Yes, two would be seen.

Dadashri: In the same way, this worldly-interacting self (vyavahaaratma) has arisen. ‘We’ have referred to it as the relative self (pratishthitatma). One has done his own pratishtha (instillation or projection of the wrong belief of ‘I am Chandubhai’ and various other wrong beliefs which in turn gives rise to a new causal body) in it. So if you continue to conduct yourself [with the belief of], ‘I am Chandubhai’, then with that pratishtha, a new relative self will arise again. If you believe this worldly interaction to be true, then that will give rise to another relative self. The Real Self actually remains the very same as it has been. If you by chance get to ‘touch’ [experience] it, then your salvation is guaranteed! At present, you only have the ‘touch’ of the worldly-interacting self.

It is actually the ego that has arisen. People say, “Pain is being inflicted on the Self. My Self is spoiled.” Hey, if the Self is spoiled, then it can never be made better. Anything that has the potential to spoil, it can never be improved; and if it is spoiling right here, then it will even spoil in Siddha gati. However, the Self is not like that. The [pure] state in which the Self exists in Siddha gati, it exists in the same state over here. But that is the Real Self, and it is the worldly-interacting self that has spoiled. The worldly interactions have spoiled, and it is the worldly interactions that need to be made pure. If you do not meet the Gnani, then you should make your worldly interaction good, whereas if you do meet the Gnani, then you should make your worldly interactionspure. That is all you have to do.

So there are no impure phases arising out of the Self. All the impure phases arise out of the worldly-interacting self.Now those phases are the subtlest of all; the subtlest temporary states (avastha) are referred to as phases. Whereas these are temporary states at the gross level, these are impure temporary states, these are gross temporary states. Is ‘I am Chandubhai’ just any minor temporary state?

The Worldly-Interacting Self Is Believed to Be the Real Self

Questioner: Do the worldly-interacting self and the Real Self have different properties?

Dadashri:Of course, they are different!The Real Self means the original Self (mool Atma).

Questioner: There is just one Self and the properties are different, is it like that?

Dadashri:It is not like that. Say, there is a man who is a big distributor of dried dates. Everyone refers to him as, “He is the dried dates merchant.” But in court, he is considered an attorney. If he argues cases, then he would be called an attorney, wouldn’t he? Similarly, if you, the developing I, are engrossed in the relative or worldly activities, then you are the worldly-interacting self, and if You, the developing ‘I’, are engrossed in the Real, then You are the Real Self. Fundamentally, You are the very same, but Your state is dependent upon what activity You are engrossed in.

People believe the worldly-interacting self to be the Real Self.Even though they refer to it as the worldly-interacting self, but in their knowledge, they consider it to be the Real Self. They think, ‘This indeed is the Self. If it is not the Self, then how is it that one talks like this? How is it that one walks? These activities like walking, moving about, talking, studying, reading, remembering, all these are verily being done by that Self. There certainly cannot be any other Self.’ That is what they think. Whereas this is actually a ‘shadow’ of the Self. If one holds onto this ‘shadow’, then he will not be able to discover the Real Self, not even in tens of millions of lifetimes. The Akram (step-less) Science has disclosed, ‘Why are you holding onto this ‘shadow’?’ Nonetheless, the Kramik path (traditional step-by-step path to attain the Self) is not wrong, but they are believing the ‘shadow’ to be the Self. Consider the Self to be the Self and consider the ‘shadow’ to be the ‘shadow’. That’s what I am trying to say.

Questioner: The biggest mistake has occurred in the belief itself.

Dadashri:When there is a mistake in the belief, then everything [based on that belief] is wrong. What else is left, then? The Real Self is the pure Soul and the one that is engaged in worldly interactions, is the worldly-interacting self; it is the relative self.It is just the belief of the relative self, a wrong belief has come about, that is why one continues to dopratishthathat, ‘I am this, I am this.’ The pratishthaof previous life comes to an end, and pratishtha for the next life is created. Not only is one saying, “I am Chandubhai,” but then he also goes on to say, “I am his uncle, I had a thought,” etc. The pratishtha done in the past life, that aashrav (beginning of discharge karma) is then undergoing nirjara (end of discharge karma) [in this life]. At the time of nirjara, the karma gets discharged upon sculpting a very similar design once again. Now, even the One who has attained this Gnan says, “I am Chandubhai and I am his uncle.” He is saying that verily due to the pratishthadone in the past life. But, as He has Gnan today, his belief of, ‘I am really Chandubhai’ has vanished, therefore He is not giving rise to any new pratishtha. So, that is considered as samvar(no influx of new karma), there is no bandh (new binding of karma) and nirjaracontinues to take place. What is referred to as bandh? It occurs when one does not have Gnan. So, whatever kind of pratishtha one does, the very same type of pratishtha arises again.

Only the Living Gnani Illuminates the Facts

Now, such points are not mentioned in books, so how can people turn [onto the right path]? In the books they write things like, ‘Put chilies, salt, turmeric, jaggery, etc. in the yogurt soup.’ But they do not actually mention in what proportion and how the specific ingredients should be used! So, internally, one is not able to understand any of this!Similarly, the entire world believes this relative self to be the Self and they want to make it steady. And that is not wrong either, it should in fact be made steady. And by making it steady, bliss arises. For however long this relative selfbecomes steady; at night whilst sleeping, it does indeed become steady, but even during the day, for as long as it becomes steady, one experiences bliss. But that bliss is such that the moment the steadiness breaks, the person reverts back to being the way he was. Now, if along with that, he knows that the original Self is already steady, then he, the developing I, can take an ‘adjustment’ [to become like the original Self]. But people do not know anything about the original Self at all. They have conceded that the relative selfitself is the Self, but in reality it is not the Self. The relative self is pudgal, there is no Self in it at all.

There is no Self in what the world believes as being the Self. This is ‘our’ discovery, ‘we’ are telling you this after having Seen it personally.This is not written in the scriptures.In fact, the scriptures have said to improve this one [the relative self]. “Keep improving it,” is what has been mentioned in them. So there should be some method to do that, shouldn’t there?There’s a method to improve it, isn’t there?The method that has been described in the scriptures is not in people’s awareness; it has been described very subtly.But actually, that method has been described through words, hasn’t it?Meaning that, if a description has been given using words that ‘When you go to Mumbai, you will find Mumbai to be like this;the Juhu beach over there is like this, it is like that;’ yet it is just in words, so how would you benefit from that?So how have the scriptures described it [the method]?It has been described using words. That would not be the same as a description through experience, would it! What is described in the scriptures is not through experience.Thus, without the live presence of the Gnani Purush, none of this can be understood clearly.

Once the Darshan Becomes Pure, You Will Merge With the Pure

There is the relative self and the other is the Real Self. The relative self is mechanical. It can only survive if you eat and drink, it will come to an end if you stop breathing. In whatever the relative self is doing, you are expressing the egoism of, ‘I am doing it’, and so the relative self for the next life gets created.

The fact of the matter is that nothing has happened to the original, Real Self. It is just that people have imparted agnan which has given rise to all these [wrong] karmic impressions (sanskaar). The moment one is born, people start calling him, “Chandu, Chandu.” Now, that little boy has no clue at all about what they are doing! Nonetheless, these people keep giving him [various such wrong] impressions. Therefore, he begins to believe, ‘I am Chandu.’ Then as he grows up, he says, “This is my maternal uncle, and this is my paternal uncle.” This is how all such agnan is being proliferated, which then gives rise to the illusion. What actually happens in this case is that one energy of the Self, known as Darshan (Vision as the Self; belief as the Self), becomes veiled. All of this has arisen because of the veiling of that energy named Darshan. When that darshan (wrong belief) is corrected once again, when it becomes right, that is when He [the developing ‘I’] will revert back to His original Real form as the Self. This darshan has become deluded and that is why one has come to believe, ‘Happiness lies only in worldly things.’ When that darshan is corrected, this belief about worldly happiness will also go away. Nothing else, no other thing has become spoilt to a great extent. It is only the darshan that has spoilt, only the belief (drashti) has spoilt. ‘We’ turn that belief around for you.

Questioner: So is it just that illusion has happened to theSelf?

Dadashri:The Self does not have any illusion; it is just the Darshan that has been veiled. The Darshan of the original Self, that Darshan got veiled completely, due to agnan being imparted from external sources. From the moment one [the developing I] is born, people impart agnan to him. The people are themselves ignorant of the Self, and they guide him towards agnan.So he also believes what he is told,and as he believes what he is told, his entire Darshan becomes veiled. Due to his Darshan becoming veiled, he says, “This is my maternal uncle.This is my paternal uncle.This is my father-in-law.”Whereas, I tell people that these are all wrong beliefs.

With the Experiential Awareness of the Original Self, You Will Attain Liberation

Questioner: So that means the Self has to work towards its own liberation, isn’t it?

Dadashri:The liberation of the Self has to be done by the Self itself, what does that mean? Fundamentally, the Self is something that is already liberated. However, this fact is not established in the belief of the belief self, meaning, the relative self. The original Self is already liberated. However, the relative self, the self you consider yourself to be, when you realize that, ‘My Real form is verily this, and I am actually full of Knowledge, Vision and Conduct as the Self,’ then You will also attain liberation. So Your liberation will happen only when You do such Purusharth (Real spiritual effort to progress as the Self)! But it is only when you meet the GnaniPurush and he makes you realize Your Real form as the Self that You will be able to do Purusharth. And that is when You will attain liberation.

That Undiscovered Real Form, Just So Marvelous!

So what is worth knowing in this world? What do you think?

Questioner: The Real form as the Self.

Dadashri: That’s it! Except that, there is else nothing else at all worth knowing in this world. Only One’s Real form as the Self is worth knowing.

Questioner: Yes, but what must that wondrous revelation be like?

Dadashri: Marvelous is that undiscovered Real form as the Self! That which is completely hidden from the world, the undiscovered Real form. That which the entire world does not know, that undiscovered Real form is indeed marvelous. There is nothing else that is more marvelous in this world than this. Actually, there cannot be anything else in this world that is marvelous, is there! You can find everything else, but that which is the undiscovered Real form, that is the only thing that is marvelous in this world! That is why the scripture writers have referred to it as marvelous, marvelous, marvelous, a hundred thousand times over.

The Fundamental Mistake Is in the Belief Itself

Questioner: But we do have bhranti (wrong belief; illusion), don’t we?

Dadashri:What bhranti do you have?

Questioner: There is bhranti regarding the Real form as the Self, isn’t there?

Dadashri: But which form is withbhranti and which form of Yours is devoid of bhranti? You do not even know which part is withoutbhranti and which part is with bhranti. You have not demarcated anything. You have not made any such divisions, have you?

Questioner: What is your definition of bhranti? And who do you consider as without bhranti?

Dadashri:‘You’ are permanent, and even the things that belong to You are permanent. But to believe the things that are temporary to be yours, that is called bhranti.

Questioner: So that is one kind of agnan, isn’t it?

Dadashri: A great deal of agnan! To believe that the ‘foreign department’ [the non-Self] is the ‘home department’ [the Self], that is a lot of agnan. If there is a foreign department, and you believe that to be the home department, then what would you consider the [actual] home department to be? Therefore, one does not know what the home [department] is. And how would you benefit from believing the ‘foreign department’ to be the ‘home department’?

Questioner: There is no benefit at all.

Dadashri: So then what is the loss?

Questioner: If we do not know our Real form, then it is all a loss.

Dadashri: It is indeed a loss, isn’t it! ‘Your’ Real form as the Self is the ‘home department’. And you keep claiming in the ‘foreign department’ that, “I am Chandubhai, I am a professor, I am this woman’s husband, I am his uncle, I am fat, I am thin,” that is called bhranti. There is no problem in saying that, but you have actually placed your faith in what you are saying. You are mixing both the Real and the relative, the ‘home’ and the ‘foreign’, and you are saying, “I am indeed Chandubhai.”Oh! Just look at this great Chandubhai! He has got a hold of the completely wrong thing! Can you afford all this? What do you think?

Questioner: I cannot afford this.

Dadashri: So you need some kind of knowledge that will bring an end to this. In this ‘ocean’ of worldly life, the ‘shore’ is not visible anywhere. At one moment, someone will say, “Let us head to the North.” When you go North, you will meet someone else who says, “Let us go this way.” “Hey, I have just come from that way.” To that he will respond, “Never mind that, just come back this way again.” So in this manner you go on wandering around. But you cannot see the end or the ‘shore’ anywhere.

If You Remain in Swabhaav, Then Swabhaavik Sukh Will Arise

That is why ‘we’ separate the Self, so that You can come into the inherently natural bliss of the Self (swabhaaviksukh).Thereafter, You will not have any worries or afflictions from external sources. Because why do worries arise? You say, “I am verily Chandubhai’ and “I am the one doing this,” that is why worries arise. Is a person really capable of doing anything? Is he doing it or does it happen on its own?

Questioner: It happens on its own, meaning one cannot do anything by himself; is that so?

Dadashri: Yes, that is it. When one tries to do it by himself, the illusion arises, and because he becomes the doer, worries arise. ‘You’ are the non-doer, but you have assumed the state of the doer, and having assumed the state of the doer, the state of the sufferer has arisen; because you went out to do something, you became the sufferer. And that is why there are worries, afflictions from external sources and conflicts the entire day! So then even if someone insults you, you feel hurt.

This Gnan is to be given so that One comes into the inherent nature as the Self. Thereafter, the Self will prevail as the Self, and the non-Self will prevail as the non-Self. The Self is there in every living being, and all it gives is illumination (prakash), it does nothing else.

Everything that is temporary is relative. All these relatives are temporary adjustments, and You are Real and permanent. But the one that is temporary and the One that is permanent have both come in proximity with each other. ‘We’ separate the two, ‘we’ draw the line of demarcation between them that, ‘This is that and this is not that.’

Questioner: What happens to the permanent when it separates from the temporary?

Dadashri: Then these miseries no longer remain! These miseries of worldly life like, ‘This happened and that happened,’ do not remain. And even when it is time to die, there is no fear; even when his pocket is picked, there is no unhappiness; even when his wife hurls abuses at him, there is no unhappiness, there is no unhappiness whatsoever! Therefore, when the permanent separates from the temporary, they both remain in their own inherent nature.What else would happen?

Questioner: For someone who has had this separation, what happens to Him after death?

Dadashri: After death, He has one more life left. This is because, if He follows the five Agnas (five special directives given by the Gnani Purush after Gnan Vidhi) that ‘we’ give, then He would have one more life left.

The Gnani Removes the Darkness Related to Spirituality

For the last twenty-five hundred years, this country has been in ‘darkness’. One or two Gnanis have manifested in that duration, but that ‘light’ could not reach everywhere. And this light [of the Self] can be reached only when one has crossed the entire layer of the mind and the entire layer of the intellect. Foreigners [those who do not accept reincarnation] have not even reached the layer of the mind. They are involved only in the activities at the level of the nishchetan mun (in this context, the mind that contemplates only about worldly life). They have not even seen the chetan mun (in this context, the mind that contemplates about the Self), they have not even heard about it and they do not even have a need for it. If you tell these foreigners today that there is a Self within, then they may understand a little bit, that there is some kind of element present. But they will not believe that it is the Self; however, they will concede that there is something else. If you tell them that reincarnation is a fact, then they will not accept it.

So only the Self has to be known. All the religions in India say that know the Self. There is no talk about the Self in foreign countries. In foreign countries, they say, “I verily am William, and I verily am the Self.” And as long as they do not believe in reincarnation, they will not attain the experiential awareness of the Self. Those who believe in reincarnation know about the Self that, ‘My Self is separate and I am separate.’

The Self is such an element that no one has managed to discover it at all; it will do if we say that no one besides the kevalGnanis(One with absolute Knowledge who can enlighten others)have discovered it. All the others who have become a Kevali (the One who has attained absolute Knowledge from the Tirthankar Lords),have attained that state upon doing the darshan (live connection with an enlightened One through eye contact) of a keval Gnani.However, the real discovery has indeed been made by the kevalGnanis,the Tirthankar Lords (the absolutely enlightened Lord who can liberate others)!

Therefore, the Self is something that is not possible to discover. How can one find the Self in this body? The Self is such that it can pass through and through many houses. If there are a hundred thousand walls here, it can even pass through and through them, that is how the Self is. Now how is it possible for someone to find the Self in this body?

The Gnani Bestows the Experience of the State as the Self

Questioner:So then people living a worldly life can never attain the Self?

Dadashri: It is nothing like that. ‘You’ are the Self. But you yourself do not have the experiential awareness of how You are the Self. Otherwise, You are indeed the Self.

When the Gnani Purush gives the Knowledge of the Self (Atma Gnan), how does He give it? ‘He’ draws a line of demarcation between illusory knowledge and Knowledge of the Self, between the knowledge of the non-Self and the Knowledge of the Self. So thereafter, there is no scope for the mistake to happen again. And the Selfwill continuously remain in awakened awareness; the awakened awareness as the Self will not disappear even for a moment.

At this moment, even in you, the function of both the Selfand the non-Selfare indeed separate. But in your case, the results of both come forth together, that is why you find it tasteless. As the results of the functions of both the entities get mixed, it becomes tasteless. For the Gnani Purush, the results of the Self remain separate, and the results of the non-Self remain separate; both the streams flow separately. That is why He is constantly in absolute bliss.

It is like this: eating, drinking, bathing, waking up, sleeping, staying awake, all these are functions of the body. And people are enmeshed only in the functions of the body. One has not come into the inherent function as the Selfeven once, not even for a second. If one had come into the inherent function as the Selffor even a second, then he would not have moved away from God.

The Bestower of Moksha Makes You Experience Moksha Right Here

Questioner: Surely, there must be some keys to know the Self?

Dadashri:There are no such keys. You simply have to go to the GnaniPurush and tell him, “Sir, I have no sense, I am a complete fool. I have wandered for infinite lives, but I have not known even a fraction, not even a hair’s worth about the Self. So please bestow some grace upon me.” That is all that needs to be done, your [spiritual] work will be done. This is because the Gnani Purush has indeed come to bestow moksha.

But then people complain, “What will become of the worldly interactions?” After knowing the Self, everything that remains is considered worldly interactions. Moreover, for the worldly interactions, the GnaniPurush gives the five Agnas. ‘He’ says, “Go and follow my five Agnas, your worldly interactions will become pure and your Nishchay (the Self and its realm) will also remain pure! All the liabilities [in relation to binding of karma] are mine!”

Moksha should come into experience over here itself. If it does not come into experience from here itself, then that is not true moksha. If moksha does not come into experience here itself after meeting me, then I am not a true Gnani, nor is that true moksha. Moksha should come into experience here itself, in this fifth era of the time cycle. It should come into experience here itself, along with this coat and hat. What assurance is there that it will come into experience over there [after death]? Therefore, you should ascertain from the GnaniPurush as to how You Yourself are the Self.

Since Time Immemorial There Has Been a Mistake in Determining the Real Form

Questioner: I feel, what is the hurry in trying to determine what the Real form as the Self is?

Dadashri: Yes, there is no need to rush. Here, you can ask however many questions you want to, ‘we’ are ready to give you the explanations. Whatever conclusion you want to draw, that too can be done here. But make the conclusion first, and at that time, you should be certain. Once you have made the conclusion, there is no need for that certainty. So there is no need for you to rush into drawing the conclusion. That is because the mistake of infinite lifetimes has to be destroyed. The mistake that has not been destroyed for infinite lifetimes, that mistake has to be destroyed. And what is the mistake that has been made for infinite lifetimes? Since time immemorial, you have made the mistake in determining what the Real form as the Self is, and that needs to be destroyed. So there is definitely no need to rush into it, is there?

The Real form as the Self is something that will not come into your understanding. With the knowledge that you currently have, you can know only up to a certain extent; however, the Real form as the Self is much further than that. Therefore, even your own knowledge will not be able to reach there. Where your understanding cannot reach; where your own knowledge cannot reach, such is Your Real form; that is the Real form as the Self!

Therefore, know ‘Who am I?’; that indeed is Your Real form. And the GnaniPurush alone can make you realize that. Thereafter, there will be no dying or taking birth, will there? Thereafter, it is the body that will die; You do not die. And within one or two lifetimes You will attain moksha.

All the Religious Tools Have Actually Become a Bondage

Questioner: Can you show us some religious tools through which Self-realization can be attained?

Dadashri: One has known many religious tools, but he remains trapped in those religious tools.Whatever religious tools people adopt, then they become fully absorbed in them. If a person is aware and alert enough to not let any kind of ‘disease’ set in, then he can make some progress. However, people are just stuck with those religious tools, they become fully absorbed in them. Therefore, if you meet the GnaniPurush who has become free, then He will help free you as well. Otherwise, until then, you can spend time with saints; there is no other merit karma better than that either. However, how can one escape from the trividhtaap (the three tremendous blazing infernos of mental, physical, and emotional anguish) of the worldly life? Nevertheless, those saints sprinkle some ‘water’, that gives some cooling comfort.

Questioner: But how can one progress without the support of any religioustools? He needs some religious tools, doesn’t he?

Dadashri: All the religious tools have actually become a bondage. Who has bound you? The religious tools themselves have bound you. All the religious tools that people are using, those religious tools indeed have bound them. Therefore, how will you know the Self? The Self itself is Science. And all the religious tools that you practice, the instruments of knowledge that you resort to; even that knowledge is shushkagnan (knowledge that does not produce any results). So, you have to carry out some activities in that. Whereas Science works on its own, it produces results on its own; you do not have to do anything. And through Science, it is possible to know the Self. There is no other tool through which you can know the Self. I have shown you this tool. Now you will follow this Science, right?

Questioner: I did not understand that. Which Science are you talking about?

Dadashri: The Science of Self-realization (Atma Vignan). Atma Vignan means the Science of attaining the Self. You can attain the Self only if you have this Science. Otherwise, there is knowledge available in the scriptures about how to attain the Self; however, it is not possible to attain the Self through that knowledge. This is because the Self is not in the form of words that it can be recorded in the scriptures. It is beyond words, it is inexpressible in words, it is indescribable. It is nothing like what people have imagined it to be. They just believe it in their head, and that is how they carry on the entire day and night, they are drifting aimlessly, and they are wandering around for infinite lifetimes, but not even a single lifetime has decreased so far!

Not the Activity, but the Experiential Awareness Needs to Be Changed

Questioner: How can people who are bound to the responsibilities of worldly life attain the Self?

Dadashri: Chandubhai and the Self,both are completely separate, and they both display their own different gunadharma (intrinsic properties that have a specific function). If one understands this from the Gnani Purush, then all his responsibilities in worldly life can be carried out nicely, and this too can carry on. Even the Gnanis eat and drink, They bathe, They do everything. ‘They’ do the same activities that you do; however, They have the experiential awareness that ‘I am not the doer.’ Whereas in the state of ignorance of the Self, people have the experiential awareness that ‘I am the doer.’ So the difference is only in the experiential awareness.

Will the Endeavor to Understand the Self Bring Results?

Questioner: Well, even I am trying to understand the Self.

Dadashri: When will you be able to understand that? If you are Chandubhai, then how will you try and understand that? And really, you are not Chandubhai at all. Chandubhai is in fact your name. You are this boy’s father, that too is a worldly interaction. And we accept all that, don’t we? What is new in that? It is a tool for identification. Therefore, you should find out from the GnaniPurush ‘who you are’; you should attain the realization of that.

You are sure that you are Chandubhai, aren’t you?

Questioner: No, it is just a name used by people. Otherwise, ‘I am the Self’, that is all, nothing else.

Dadashri: Yes, you are the Self, but if someone hurls abuses at Chandubhai, then you do not accept his ‘mail’, do you? If you accept it, then you are Chandubhai. Then you cannot say that it is just what people call you. When they are hurling abuses at Chandubhai, why do you accept the ‘mail’? Therefore, you have become Chandubhai.

Questioner: One has to do everything in order to live in worldly life!

Dadashri: No. You have to live in worldly life, but you should not accept Chandubhai’s ‘mail’. You can say, “This is Chandubhai’s ‘mail’. I have no problem. You can hurl as many abuses at him as you like.” But you prevail as Chandubhai. You take all of Chandubhai’s ‘prizes’, and then you say, “I am the Self.” So can you become the Self like this?

Absolute Separation in Worldly Life Is Attained Through Grace

How have you become certain that you are the Self?

Questioner: We have been to a guru like you, we have listened to the religious teachings on, ‘How the body and the Self are separate.’ Besides, there is a big difference between us and you, isn’t there? We lead a worldly life, we are immersed in illusory attachment, illusion induced by worldly life...

Dadashri: And do ‘we’ not lead a worldly life? Even ‘we’ lead a worldly life. Whoever in this world empties their bowels, they all lead a worldly life. Those who need to empty their bowels and they look for a toilet, they are all considered to be leading a worldly life.

Questioner: But is it possible for people like us to attain the Knowledge of the Self, to attain moksha while living in worldly life?

Dadashri: This is how it is, there are two types of worldly life; the one who has renounced worldly life is also in worldly life, and the one who leads life as a householder is also in worldly life. There are two types of worldly life. The one who has renounced worldly life lives with the knowledge, ‘I have renounced this, I have renounced that.’ And the one who leads life as a householder lives with the knowledge, ‘I am taking this, I am giving this, I have to acquire that’. But if the Self is realized, then moksha will be attained.

Questioner: Even while living in worldly life, while carrying out worldly duties, can we remain completely unaffected by it?

Dadashri: That is precisely what [Gnan] the GnaniPurush has! The GnaniPurush has that kind of Science, and He bestows that. After attaining that, it is possible to carry out your worldly duties as well as prevail as the Self. That is the kind of Science that the GnaniPurush has.

I am able to converse with you, thus, I am able to live in worldly life and I am also able to prevail as the Self; I am able to do both. I carry out all the activities of worldly life that need to be carried out. It is possible to live in worldly life as well as prevail as the Self.If One has attained the Self, that means He has attained samkit. And samkit means despite living in worldly life, worldly life does not affect Him. And samkit is attained through the grace of the Gnani Purush.

The GnaniPurush has the entire Science, that Science cannot be found in the scriptures. As far as the scriptures are concerned, [they say that] there is no option but to renounce everything.

To live amongst such people [who are ignorant of the Self] and pass the days by, moreover, to live in a way that karma are not bound, how should one do that? I will impart all of such Knowledge to you. I will impart to you such Knowledge whereby You do not become lepayamaan(affected by worldly intents that tend to anoint). Otherwise, the people of this world are anyway lepayamaan. Just as a lotus lives in water, yet it remains unaffected by the water, I will show You how to dwell in a nirlep(to be unaffected or unanointed by any worldly intents that tend to anoint) statelike that.

When one sits with the GnaniPurush to attain that kind of Self, then through the samayik (in this case, the Gnan Vidhi or Dadashri’s forty-eight-minute scientific process of separating the Self and the non-Self) of the GnaniPurush, all his demerit karma are burnt to ashes. And it is only when demerit karma are burnt to ashes that the Self comes into one’s awakened awareness, otherwise it will not come into one’s awakened awareness. Then that awakened awareness constantly prevails; otherwise there is nothing in this world that is remembered constantly. Perhaps something will be remembered for a while, but it will soon be forgotten. Whereas if the demerit karma are destroyed by the GnaniPurush, then the awakened awareness as the Self will set in.

So if there is anything in this world worth knowing, then it is the Self. And there are hardly one or two people in this world who know the Self. Therefore, no one is able to know the Self. People are able to know everything, but they are not able to know the Self. For the One who knows the Self, attaining absolute Knowledge(kevalGnan) will not take time.

Now, if a person comes to know that Self from the GnaniPurush, then he can attain the Self, otherwise, it is not possible to attain the Self at any time. The GnaniPurush has Seen, Known and experienced the Self, and He prevails in nothing but the Real form as the Self. Therefore, if one is to know the Self from such a GnaniPurush, then his [spiritual] work will get done.

~ Jai Sat Chit Anand